This is the talk page of SHB2000
Click here to message me. I will reply as soon as I can. All replies will be made directly underneath your message on this page. Do be aware though, that I do not use talkback. I do on the other hand, use pings as I've more or less given up on watchlists, but may not always ping you (usually, if the message has gone unanswered for about more than 12-18 hours, then I'd usually give a ping). Threads on this page are archived every 14 days of inactivity, but mass mail messages may get archived earlier, while active threads might get archived later than 14 days of inactivity, but how this page is archived isn't consistent merely because a bot couldn't do its job. |
User relations[edit]
Please leave Andrewssi2 alone. You can see that they don't appreciate your interaction, so anything you tell them won't help the situation. I don't know what's going on between you, but I sincerely hope you can get over it. Just try to let things calm down for now. –LPfi (talk) 11:02, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Not when there are six instances of them misusing their admin tools in the last 50 minutes (as of this message's timestamp). Asking to be "left alone" is a snarky tactic to dodge the problem at-hand. On the other hand, I will respect this request once the admin tool misuse issues have been resolved; not before. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:06, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- When somebody clearly shows that they have no intension to read or answer messages, adding more messages for them to read helps little. I am all for getting your complaints sorted out in due time, but them wanting a respite from this is reasonable (I don't know what reasons they have, but real-life troubles could be a good one, and overload with the issue here is quite enough). I might not think that rollbacks are a particularly elegant way of handling this, but in the situation where one doesn't want to handle the conflict, one might also not want to think hard about the best way to avoid it.
- I left you this message before seeing the nomination page thread and hoped the situation would cool down enough to be handled amicably. There is no abuse that needs to be stopped now, so waiting a few days, several days if needed, would be no problem. I think you should ponder overnight about what is best for the project, and whether you personally need to walk the path to its end.
- My impression is that you generally want rules to be followed. However, in most projects there are situations where it is better to ignore the rules in some situations. When a rule is broken, is the situation one that the rule on enforcement was written for, or one that could be better handled in some other way? If rules were broken, were they broken in unforgivable ways?
- Enough here. If you still really feel treated badly, you have my compassion, but I hope you can get over it without this issue deteriorating.
- –LPfi (talk) 12:42, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, LPfi, thank you for the detailed explanation. I'll consider this after a break tomorrow; I now agree with you about the urgentness given that Andrewssi2 / Asretired has retired (per their username). I'm sorry if my messages to you came out a bit hasty. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- @LPfi: To minimise drama, I'll bring it up here and with you (since your stance mostly seems to be neutral), but we don't allow Special:Redirect/logid/3824876, right? I thought that user talk pages were to never be deleted (but maybe that is a Commons policy). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 05:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Could you also take a stab at "This individual is very unpleasant, unhinged and quite possibly a violent person in real life. This is now a safety issue." on their user page? Aren't attack statements on user pages explicitly banned? I'll leave it to you to interpret foundation:Wikimedia Foundation Universal Code of Conduct#3.1 – Harassment: "Threats: Explicitly or implicitly suggesting the possibility of physical violence, unfair embarrassment, unfair and unjustified reputational harm, or intimidation by suggesting gratuitous legal action to win an argument or force someone to behave the way you want." (I italicised possibility). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:03, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I am neutral in the original conflict and the question on who is responsible for the drama, but I didn't see any reason for desysoping him. I think the rollbacks and the action you cite above are non-aggressive self-defence (as I have explained above and elsewhere), possibly excess in self-defence, but as no real harm has been caused (you shouldn't contact him in this situation, and those who need to can reach him anyway), there is no hurry discussing, reverting or taking measures about them. –LPfi (talk) 08:14, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- @LPfi: That is fair; sorry for repeating this but users aren't allowed to delete their own talk pages, right (I thought user talk pages should never be deleted)? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think we have such a policy here (we use common sense a lot more than en-wp). If deleting the talk page makes him feel more comfortable, I wouldn't interfere with it for a reasonable cool-down period. At some point it should be restored, probably as an archive, unless he does something along those lines himself. Also the talk page protection should be removed at the same time, if not before. –LPfi (talk) 08:49, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Understandable (3+3 days as you suggested?) – though doesn't the protection automatically get removed once a page is deleted? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:54, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know, but as page creation can be disabled, I guess the protection entries aren't affected by page deletion (deletion can easily be implemented with a flag in the database, and any action on the page could check or ignore that flag). –LPfi (talk) 09:15, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- (Thankfully) Asretired has not enabled page protection on their talk page, so I think that is one fewer thing to worry about. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- To my understanding, people have the right to delete the contents of their user talk pages. I wouldn't support restoring content against his will. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:50, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- OK. If there are neither guidelines nor consensus on this, we should let the user decide, unless there are reasons not to. –LPfi (talk) 09:52, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Ikan Kekek: Correct me if I'm wrong – I might be mixing this up with Commons policy – but I thought we let users blank content on their user talk pages because they can still be accessed via the page history. However, by deleting a user talk page, the page history will no longer be accessible hence why user talk pages aren't deleted. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:51, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- The other issue I see with the page deleted is that oppose voters cannot see what exactly I posted on their user talk page which has (unfortunately) led to some users automatically assuming it is harassment. I presume a screenshot will do, but it is more ideal if all users can see what I wrote instead of being thrown frivolous accusations by 5 different individuals (though not all of it had to do with the talk page messages). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:48, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- That could be a reason for undeleting, yes. However, the issue isn't really what you wrote, only that you wrote there after him having asked you to let him alone, and that he removed what you had written. I think that is well established, nobody has contested that part and nobody has suggested that you wrote something otherwise offensive. –LPfi (talk) 15:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I see the point about deleting the entire page, yes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Tomorrow will be 3 days (UTC+11) since the discussion was initiated, which I think is enough time for Asretired to cool down. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 19:47, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I'll mention it while I can, but I feel very uneasy about their userpage, but I trust that Ikan and LPfi are in a much better position to judge than I am, so apologies if I seem quite impatient with the userpage issue. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 19:53, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Tomorrow will be 3 days (UTC+11) since the discussion was initiated, which I think is enough time for Asretired to cool down. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 19:47, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- The nature of Pashley's comment suggests that I did (keep in mind that this user is in denial of Asretired doing anything wrong, which tells a lot). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 19:36, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- So I think you're right that the userpage should eventually be undeleted, but we shouldn't restore the content we know he wanted deleted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. It's fine for my messages to not be restored given that they can still be found using the page history. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 02:06, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- It can be restored as a blank page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:22, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Ikan Kekek, LPfi: Given it has been 3 days since the dispute, could one of you undelete the page and blank it? (and I presume we're giving 3 more days for Asretired to edit out the personal safety issues?) --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 21:57, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- It can be restored as a blank page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:22, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. It's fine for my messages to not be restored given that they can still be found using the page history. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 02:06, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- So I think you're right that the userpage should eventually be undeleted, but we shouldn't restore the content we know he wanted deleted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I see the point about deleting the entire page, yes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- That could be a reason for undeleting, yes. However, the issue isn't really what you wrote, only that you wrote there after him having asked you to let him alone, and that he removed what you had written. I think that is well established, nobody has contested that part and nobody has suggested that you wrote something otherwise offensive. –LPfi (talk) 15:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- The other issue I see with the page deleted is that oppose voters cannot see what exactly I posted on their user talk page which has (unfortunately) led to some users automatically assuming it is harassment. I presume a screenshot will do, but it is more ideal if all users can see what I wrote instead of being thrown frivolous accusations by 5 different individuals (though not all of it had to do with the talk page messages). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:48, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- To my understanding, people have the right to delete the contents of their user talk pages. I wouldn't support restoring content against his will. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:50, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- (Thankfully) Asretired has not enabled page protection on their talk page, so I think that is one fewer thing to worry about. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know, but as page creation can be disabled, I guess the protection entries aren't affected by page deletion (deletion can easily be implemented with a flag in the database, and any action on the page could check or ignore that flag). –LPfi (talk) 09:15, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Understandable (3+3 days as you suggested?) – though doesn't the protection automatically get removed once a page is deleted? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:54, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think we have such a policy here (we use common sense a lot more than en-wp). If deleting the talk page makes him feel more comfortable, I wouldn't interfere with it for a reasonable cool-down period. At some point it should be restored, probably as an archive, unless he does something along those lines himself. Also the talk page protection should be removed at the same time, if not before. –LPfi (talk) 08:49, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- @LPfi: That is fair; sorry for repeating this but users aren't allowed to delete their own talk pages, right (I thought user talk pages should never be deleted)? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I am neutral in the original conflict and the question on who is responsible for the drama, but I didn't see any reason for desysoping him. I think the rollbacks and the action you cite above are non-aggressive self-defence (as I have explained above and elsewhere), possibly excess in self-defence, but as no real harm has been caused (you shouldn't contact him in this situation, and those who need to can reach him anyway), there is no hurry discussing, reverting or taking measures about them. –LPfi (talk) 08:14, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Could you also take a stab at "This individual is very unpleasant, unhinged and quite possibly a violent person in real life. This is now a safety issue." on their user page? Aren't attack statements on user pages explicitly banned? I'll leave it to you to interpret foundation:Wikimedia Foundation Universal Code of Conduct#3.1 – Harassment: "Threats: Explicitly or implicitly suggesting the possibility of physical violence, unfair embarrassment, unfair and unjustified reputational harm, or intimidation by suggesting gratuitous legal action to win an argument or force someone to behave the way you want." (I italicised possibility). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:03, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
I am sorry you think we don't care about you. My intension was to eventually take care of that bit, but I believe it needed to wait and I didn't see much harm in letting this take the time it needs. Perhaps I was wrong, but if I cannot – or you cannot – trust my judgement, then the best I can do is probably to keep away. I am sorry for that too and sincerely hope somebody else can make the best out of this. –LPfi (talk) 21:22, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- @LPfi: Don't feel the need to apologise; at this point Asretired has left Wikivoyage, so there's nothing much to be said. None of this was your fault, you're a separate individual and cannot control what Asretired/Andrewssi2 does. All I wanted is for all references about me, direct or indirect, to be removed from their page ASAP. None of this would have ever been a problem had they never written those statements in the first place (and the few users that enabled their behaviour). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 05:45, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Hi[edit]
Hello @SHB2000, Can I have autopatroller rights? :) Lionel Cristiano (talk) 19:53, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- not yet. You must familiarize yourself with our policies and our Manual of Style, and demonstrate the acquired familiarity on your edits. Thanks for contributing to Wikivoyage. Ibaman (talk) 20:13, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, autopatroller on this rights are only given after a few months of constructive editing. Do read the links linked by Ibaman, though! --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:14, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- I understand, thank you, can I write to you again in a few months? Lionel Cristiano (talk) 20:16, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Up to you. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:17, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- See you in a few months, I will miss you, have a nice day :-) Lionel Cristiano (talk) 20:20, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Lionel Cristiano: Do note that it's also generally only given out to active editors too; taking a break and coming back after a few months with few to no edits won't change anything. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 05:56, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- You are right, I will try to be active. Lionel Cristiano (talk) 08:23, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Cool and happy editing! --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:24, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- You are right, I will try to be active. Lionel Cristiano (talk) 08:23, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Lionel Cristiano: Do note that it's also generally only given out to active editors too; taking a break and coming back after a few months with few to no edits won't change anything. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 05:56, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- See you in a few months, I will miss you, have a nice day :-) Lionel Cristiano (talk) 20:20, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Up to you. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:17, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- I understand, thank you, can I write to you again in a few months? Lionel Cristiano (talk) 20:16, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
Tech News: 2024-12[edit]
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Recent changes
- The notice "Language links are at the top of the page" that appears in the Vector 2022 skin main menu has been removed now that users have learned the new location of the Language switcher. [1]
- IP info feature displays data from Spur, an IP addresses database. Previously, the only data source for this feature was MaxMind. Now, IP info is more useful for patrollers. [2]
- The Toolforge Grid Engine services have been shut down after the final migration process from Grid Engine to Kubernetes. [3][4][5]
- Communities can now customize the default reasons for undeleting a page by creating MediaWiki:Undelete-comment-dropdown. [6]
Problems
- RevisionSlider is an interface to interactively browse a page's history. Users in right-to-left languages reported RevisionSlider reacting wrong to mouse clicks. This should be fixed now. [7]
Changes later this week
- The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 19 March. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 20 March. It will be on all wikis from 21 March (calendar). [8][9]
- All wikis will be read-only for a few minutes on March 20. This is planned at 14:00 UTC. [10][11]
Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
MediaWiki message delivery 17:40, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
This Month in Education: February 2024[edit]
This Month in Education
Volume 13 • Issue 2 • February 2024
- 2 new courses in Students Write Wikipedia Starting this February
- More two wiki-education partnerships
- Open Education Week 2024 in Mexico
- Reading Wikipedia in Bolivia, the community grows
- Wiki Education Philippines promotes OERs utilization
- Wiki Loves Librarians, Kaduna
- Wiki Workshop 2024 CfP – Call for Papers Research track
Tech News: 2024-13[edit]
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Recent changes
- An update was made on March 18th 2024 to how various projects load site, user JavaScript and CSS in Vector 2022 skin. A checklist is provided for site admins to follow.
Changes later this week
- The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 26 March. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 27 March. It will be on all wikis from 28 March (calendar). [12][13]
Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.