Are there regions where a traveler is likely to encounter either of the above, albeit outside of appropriately licensed premesis?

'Moonshine' whilst still typically ethanol based may not necessarily be under the normal quality control, whereas meths (methanol) has serious side effects, see w:Methanol_toxicity ? —The preceding comment was added by ShakespeareFan00 (talk • contribs)

Anytime you try home-made booze, you have to be careful. I wouldn't worry about artisanal limoncello in Italy, but someone's fire-water in a remote location could be an issue. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:47, 27 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

So how do we say this in the article ? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:42, 27 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Do you want to post a draft here? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

There is currently an infobox at Alcoholic_beverages#Stay_healthy. Improve it? Delete it as unnecessary? Pashley (talk) 13:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

The infoboxes are good, except that I think "People have killed themselves by tossing back too many shots too quickly." should not be bolded. Most people are not going to read this article for warnings like that, but I think we needn't treat them with the disrespect needed to bold the statement. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

I have seen a claim that anthropologists have found only three things that exist in different forms in all human cultures: language. an incest taboo, and brewing alcohol. A simple web search did not turn up confirmation. Does anyone know more? Pashley (talk) 15:14, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

In ancient Egypt, Pharaohs married their sisters, so I don't think incest taboos, at least those extending to siblings, have been universal. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:24, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Does this article really need a cautionbox?

Seems like a case of "Captain Obvious" uselessly reiterating drivel for the politically correct crowd.

Deleting it would improve the article. Mrkstvns (talk) 17:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Mrkstvns: I'm not sure what you mean. Around here "cautionbox" usually refers to Template:Cautionbox, which doesn't currently appear in this article. Do you mean the two infoboxes in the "Stay healthy" section? —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:11, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Looks like they've been changed to infoboxes (Thanks, Pashley!) I swear I haven't been drinking (yet!)... Mrkstvns (talk) 17:21, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

I don't think a discussion of health effects is balanced if it only focuses on drunkenness and excessive consumption. There is ample evidence that moderate drinking is part of a "healthy" lifestyle. A balanced discussion is provided by Mayo Clinic here. Mrkstvns (talk) 14:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

The linked page states up front, as summary: "Moderate alcohol use has possible health benefits, but it's not risk-free." It continues to say that the studies cannot reliable distinguish causality from correlation, and that "Any potential benefits of alcohol are relatively small and may not apply to all individuals. [...] no one should begin drinking alcohol or drink more often on the basis of potential health benefits."

I think it is enough for us to say that there may be some benefits.

–LPfi (talk) 11:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Drinking may be part of a healthy lifestyle, but there is no evidence that a sober lifestyle cannot be as healthy. –LPfi (talk) 11:21, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'm a teetotaler and concur with LPfi. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:58, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

The link between lifestyle and health is complex and drinking is typically only a small part of the total picture. In the myriad articles about the "French Paradox" (in which French people seem to get away with eating a high-fat diet without suffering lower life expectancy), it's frequently attributed to a combination of moderate drinking of RED wine coupled with a diet that excludes a lot of the "bad" foods of a typical American diet (soft drinks, processed sugars, high fructose corn syrup, deep fried foods, etc.) There's likely no advice about drinking that will hold true for every person's situation. Mrkstvns (talk) 16:14, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

By the way, I'm okay with LPfi's re-write of the paragraph. Mrkstvns (talk) 16:16, 4 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

From what I've been seeing this year, the evidence for red wine being helpful is crumbling. No amount of alcohol is safe. A small amount, occasionally, may not have clinical significance. One drink per day is generally held to be harmful now. One drink per week might have small but statistically measurable harm. One drink per month might not be measurable.

That said, there actually is advice about drinking that will hold true for everyone: If you don't drink it, it can't hurt you. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:21, 26 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

I assume that some travellers will get in company that drink more heavily than they are used to, including travellers who never or seldom drink at home and haven't been exposed to bulge drinking. I added a warning to look out for friends who get drunk and especially those who get unconscious, but I think more specific advice might be warranted. However, I don't know what to say. –LPfi (talk) 10:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

There is an infobox titled "Lethal dose" at Alcoholic_beverages#Stay_healthy. Is it correct? (I think so.) Does it need more? Pashley (talk) 20:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

The lowest fatal dose I have seen reported was small woman celebrating a birthday & dying after taking 11 shots quickly. Pashley (talk) 20:36, 26 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

The lethal dose is probably correct (Finnish spirits used to be sold in 500 ml bottles for that reason), and 11 shots feels a lot for a small woman, definitely more than they should drink in a row.

I am thinking of something different: what should you do when your friend gets severely drunk, perhaps unconscious. Can you go to bed yourself in that situation? Should you move them to a better position? At what point should you call an ambulance?

–LPfi (talk) 06:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

I don't know if we should give that kind of medical advice. Beyond mentioning dangerous symptoms, I think all we could say is if you think a friend might be in medical danger, call an ambulance. But that's really captain obvious, isn't it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

If you realise that they are, sure. But when should you regard them as being in lethal danger? If they get unconscious after having taken a lot of shots in a row, or emptied a bottle of something strong, probably you should. I don't think giving that advice is against our policy on medical advice. Saying that somebody is OK if they got unconscious in other circumstances, that's the advice we should avoid. –LPfi (talk) 10:01, 27 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

I've seen a claim that a useful therapy for methanol poisoning is to consume lots of ethanol, stay utterly plastered for a few days. The logic is that methanol itself is not poisonous but its breakdown products are. Keep the liver busy processing ethanol & the methanol byproducts will be produced more slowly, at rates the body can handle.

Is this real? @Doc James Worth mentioning? Pashley (talk) 16:33, 4 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

We do treat methanol toxicity with ethanol yes. We even have had intravenous ethanol for this purpose. But it is complicated to do. And fomepizole is easier. But yes medically we would do this if we did not have fomepazole. mdwiki:Methanol toxicity Travel Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:03, 4 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

Our current advice includes "Symptoms include dizzyness, blurred vision and unconsciousness 6–24 hours after ingestion." but all those symptoms can also be caused by ethanol. Can we give better advice on recognizing methanol poisoning? If you do suspect it, should we say anything about treatment other than "Go to a hospital emergency room immediately."? Pashley (talk) 03:18, 5 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

So if it's the morning after & you feel utterly ghastly, how can you tell if it is just a hangover or you have methanol poisoning? In one case you probably should not waste a doctor's time, but in the other you might die. @Doc James? Pashley (talk) 14:08, 23 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

Vision problems are common. But early on there is no simple way to differentiate. Travel Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:38, 24 February 2025 (UTC)Reply