Swept in from the pub

Hey everyone! Wikimedia Small Projects and the Wikipedia Asian Month User Group are teaming up again to throw a contest to celebrate Wikivoyage's 12th anniversary with the Wikimedia family. As part of Wikipedia Asian Month, we’re excited to kick off something special called Wikivoyage Asian Month from November 20 to January 20, where we’ll focus on improving or creating content about Asian destinations.

You can find all the contest details on this page. Just like with the Wikivoyage 10 contest, each community needs to have at least three judges and can decide if they want to stick to the global scoring criteria or come up with their own (just keep in mind that local criteria can’t be lower than the global ones). It’d be great to whip up a list of top places to create or enhance.

This year, we also want to include other communities, like frwikivoyage, itwikivoyage, ruwikivoyage, dewikivoyage, jawikivoyage, and zhwikivoyage. If anyone who speaks those languages could help promote this initiative, that would be awesome!

Feel free to hit me up with any questions you have about it. Let’s use this discussion space to figure out what method to go with (WAM usually uses Fontaine, so we might want to stick with that).

Best, Galahad (sasageyo!)^(esvoy) 05:39, 18 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'll be available this summer (southern) and am more than happy to volunteer as a judge if it's needed. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 05:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Galahad, do you have someone lined up to create a CentralNotice banner? As I recall, that was the biggest hurdle last time.

Based on prior experience, especially the amount of time involved for judges, I think that we need to have very few categories, and only automated criteria (e.g., the tools automatically count up the number of edits, and judges manually subtract out any identified bad edits). WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:14, 18 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Past experience suggests that purely automatic criteria is a bad idea. It is Ok to use automatic qualifying criteria, but prizes should only be given at the judges discretion. We have had contests in past where the same 1000 bytes (eg detailing the mobile phone operators) have been added to tens of articles. We don't want "1 point for each 2000 bytes added to an existing article" to result in loads of articles getting the same boilerplate text. AlasdairW (talk) 22:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I strongly agree with AlasdairW on this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:06, 19 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

+2 – most of our problem expeditions stem from a broad automatic criteria. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 00:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I also don't want to see "1 point for each 2000 bytes added". I would like to see automatic (or nearly automatic) criteria like "Most number of unreverted edits" or "Most number of days edited" or "Most listings updated" (the latter being detectable through the "Updated listing for..." edit summary, though it'd be nice to have the Special:Tags system tag the use of the listing editor).

And I would like the list of criteria to be short, so the judges don't have to check 20 different things. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Merely updating a listing is not necessarily good, if it's done in order to tout, involves adding default address info, makes it more encyclopedic, etc., etc. I oppose any automatic criteria. The judges need to take the time to personally review everything. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I can assist with zhwikivoyage and judge. I think we can use the same criteria as the edit-a-thon in 2018. You can only get 1 point per article, not the "1 point per 2000 bytes added". And disqualify copying & pasting the same content across different pages. These rules should eliminate the boilerplate text problem. Recognizing that some of the contents can be out-of-date, removing inaccurate information should also count (but I am not sure if any tools can be used to count "subtraction" as improvement automatically). OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 22:15, 19 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I like the rules for the edit-a-thon 2018. But if it is to be held globally, the byte count should be changed (or removed) for different languages because of both an issue of byte count per character (ex. each Japanese characters have three bytes) and an enrichment issue for existing articles.

Also, I think it would be difficult to count minor corrections and subtractions; it would be easier to judge to focus only on the addition and creation of articles.

BTW: I can help judge on jawikivoyage though it is a small community if the contest is held there as well. It would be exciting if we could attract users from jawiki, where many users participate... Tmv (talk) 13:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@WhatamIdoing: I can ping some admins to prioritize the banner request.

@OhanaUnited & @Tmv thanks! Please can you translate the message I posted and preferably ping me so I can provide assistance.

When it comes to global criteria, each community has the freedom to establish local criteria that suit their unique needs—this flexibility is what makes the contest so great! Ideally, we want to keep the criteria consistent, simply adjusting the requirements as necessary. It’s also crucial to leverage the content gap criterion to help prioritize our efforts; for instance, in eswikivoyage, we’re focusing on boosting our coverage of Japan destinations. Best, Galahad (sasageyo!)^(esvoy) 01:00, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

You need someone with translation rights to mark the page eligible for translation. Otherwise we can't translate the message on Meta. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 02:06, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

No harm in asking a TA to mark it for translation (even us ordinary Meta admins cannot do this). --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 02:19, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Tmv Thanks for translating the Japanese page. Is there a local page on jawikivoyage like this? We want to add ja to the participating communities table. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 06:12, 16 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@OhanaUnited (and other members) Hello, I'm afraid to have no reaction by Japanese community. I am not comfortable to proceed on my own, so we will pass this time. Please feel free to call Japanese community if you hold the next one! We will be supposed to be ready. --Tmv (talk) 10:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

No problem. Please encourage anyone to participate in English, Chinese or Spanish competition. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 05:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

I think there isn't any major technical problem with the byte count for Japanese: Japanese characters use more bytes but also convey more meaning (Russian would have the problem). Anyway, isn't the competition language specific? The more severe problem of encouraging fluff remains. –LPfi (talk) 10:05, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Creation of stub articles has been a problem. If article creation is to be counted, then I think there should be a requirement of the article reaching usable status. Adding listings (appropriate ones with sufficient information) to articles seems to be among the most important tasks; although perhaps only those in bottom-level destination articles with a lack of them in the section concerned should be counted. –LPfi (talk) 10:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

You're obliquely making an important point: templated listings in non-bottom-level articles are usually problematic and should not be rewarded. That said, I think that any useful listings put in the right place should be appreciated and credited, not only those on otherwise blank pages. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:16, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Maybe I could suggest the removal of points for incorrectly formatted articles such as the example you brought up? (e.g., -5 points for each templated listing in a region article where it is not supposed to belong) It would have definitely helped for the Nigeria and Africa Expeditions were this a thing. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 11:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I think there shouldn't be punishments for good-faith edits; not giving points for possibly problematic edits, good or not, instead directs participants toward those that are easy to judge. By counting only the first listings in a section, we'd avoid long lists in big cities.

If there already are 3, 5 or 9 eat listings, adding another grill kiosk helps little; better add the first or third listing to some badly underdeveloped city article. Whether that grill kiosk is worth listing is a matter of judgement, which takes judges' time and can create frustration for the participant who added it in good faith.

–LPfi (talk) 11:51, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

If you're suggesting a full hard-cap on points for listings (such as 9 for cities/parks in buy, eat, drink and sleep), I am all for that, as that avoids the listing copypasta we saw in the Africa Expedition. That said I don't think we should have one for see or do which I think is implied. SHB2000 (t | c | m) 11:54, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I did think about eat/drink/sleep, and you are right that there can be many more relevant see/do listings. There can still be a problem of long lists: adding all churches in Helsinki (taking info from the congregation pages, where it is readily available) shouldn't give more points than adding three listings to each of a dozen articles. There could be a cap at three similar listings or some such. –LPfi (talk) 15:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, true; I don't remember which expedition (or if it was with a specific editor), but there was one that added loads of boring municipal parks which would have the same intended consequence. Similarly, we also need to have provisions to ensure that listings such as WV:BORING (fast food joints) don't get additional points unless proven otherwise. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 21:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'm in favor of adding a municipal park to pretty much every article; a free place to get some sunshine and exercise is useful for anyone with jetlag, and a playground is good for anyone traveling with little kids. I have fond memories of stopping at little city parks during family road trips when I was a kid. However, I don't think we need "loads of" them in any article, and probably not even three, unless they're very different (e.g., municipal playground vs municipal swimming pool vs municipal bike path). WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sure, and more than one if they're particularly nice. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:57, 23 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I am too – they're a great place to unwind at the end of a day; I only have an issue with excessive municipal parks. SHB2000 (t | c | m) 02:31, 24 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Is this possible to be held at Wikimedia Incubator? Veracious (talk) 09:26, 15 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Veracious: Absolutely! The Wikivoyage community in the Incubator is more than welcome to join in! Galahad (sasageyo!)^(esvoy) 06:28, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Galahad Does the event starts at 15 January 2025? Maybe there's a little chance for idwikivoyage to join the party as a newly-hatched project. Veracious (talk) 04:37, 19 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

That would be really nice to see; hopefully LangCom approves idwikivoyage, it's nearly there and can't see much getting in the way of things. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 04:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Veracious: The dates are fixed. You can, however, extend the duration of the contest on idwikivoyage. Best, Galahad (sasageyo!)^(esvoy) 22:00, 19 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

The global page is already set for translation. With just 25 days to go, it’d be great to get the local pages ready with the judges and local criteria (or decide if you wanna stick with the global criteria). Best, Galahad (sasageyo!)^(esvoy) 00:15, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

With just 15 days to go, do we need to set up a registration/sign-up page? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 22:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Page on eswikivoyage created! Make a page like the one for every local edition of Wikipedia Asian Month (check out the ones on Wikivoyage 10 for both eswikivoyage and enwikivoyage, for example). Also, set up the boards in Fontaine after we figure out if we're going with the global or local criteria. Galahad (sasageyo!)^(esvoy) 05:21, 6 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

enwikivoyage and zhwikivoyage pages are also ready (I relied on your Spanish page as source for translation, so please double check the English version for accuracy). OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 07:02, 10 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Can we get someone to be enwikivoyage judge? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 06:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000 wanted to volunteer as a judge for this edition. Galahad (sasageyo!)^(esvoy) 15:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Yep, can confirm. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 20:36, 13 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Galahad I'm actually in favour to create a local sign up table like this (for English) and this (for those using global criteria) instead of using the Fountain. It's far easier to summarize the result without having to click through every article to figure out which country it is from (and identify any non-Asian countries). OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 06:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

While I have no problem with it, each community should have its own way of judging articles (if enwikivoyage and zhwikivoyage think it is optimal to use a table, great). The important thing is that when judging, the global criterion is used (or the local one, if the community discussed it). On eswikivoyage, fontaine will be used for its practicality. Best, Galahad (sasageyo!)^(esvoy) 06:26, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hello there, I am interested in taking part in this contest. RockTransport (talk) 20:46, 4 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

@RockTransport It is open to everybody and you can directly sign up by adding your name to the table. You don't need to have an article in mind or worked on one before putting your name into the table. And when you start working on a page (but haven't finished), add it to the centre column. Once it's done, move the entry to the rightmost column. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 06:41, 5 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Swept in from the pub

Thanks to everyone that participated at Wikivoyage:Wikivoyage Asian Month. This year, we had 9 users improve articles from 15 different Asian countries. This year, the top three contributors were:

1. ChubbyWimbus – 14 articles
2. Jpatokal – 12 articles
3. Chongkian – 8 articles

Thanks again, especially OhanaUnited and Galahad for making this happen, and hopefully we have more edit-a-thons like this in the future.

--SHB (t | c | m) 04:38, 22 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for hosting the event! It was not just fun but also really motivating! ChubbyWimbus (talk) 10:45, 22 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Definitely agreed there – a great excuse to expand on places that you'd otherwise put off for another few weeks or months. SHB (t | c | m) 11:05, 22 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks everyone for participating. I am very pleased that most submissions are of high quality and cover non-English speaking countries where there's less online tourism guides written in English (unlike our last general edit-a-thon in 2018 which are dominated by Indian, American, British, Irish and Canadian submissions). We can time it with the Wikipedia Asian Month which runs annually from November 1 to December 31. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 19:33, 23 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'm really pleased with how the global editathon turned out! Since it was a prototype, it delivered fantastic results, and I'm excited about the possibility of making it an annual event—maybe with even more communities joining in! I'll be working on a diff, but I just need to gather the results from the other participating language versions first. Galahad (sasageyo!)^(esvoy) 04:17, 25 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

I am fully onboard with making this a permanent annual event in the future. --SHB (t | c | m) 01:30, 26 January 2025 (UTC)Reply