There used to be a description when hovering over links but now these appear blank, can someone fix this. I think this may have happened when the table of contents vanished. Tai123.123 (talk) 05:49, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It still works for me. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:42, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean the pop-up window with an image and some of the article text? For me, there are pop-ups, but the half that should have text is empty. I think they were not divided in that way before, so has there been some kind of change? –LPfi (talk) 09:04, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see three kinds, the ones I am used to, with or without the text, and the horizontally divided ones without text. Some versions are probably from my cache. –LPfi (talk) 09:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for posting this note. I've filed a bug report.

If it still works for you, then you might be using the gadget "Navigation popups: page previews and editing functions popup when hovering over an internal link". Try it in a private/incognito window to see the simplified Page Previews (what almost all readers see). WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:38, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for filing the bug. I get the text on maybe a third of the links, including for pages I haven't visited for a while, so it is probably WMF's cache, not mine, that handle them. An example article and an example link from there seem to be needed at Phabricator. –LPfi (talk) 18:43, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! The ones I see have a photo but no text. Tai123.123 (talk) 19:01, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Jdlrobson has gotten the bug organized. I don't know how long it will take to get things fixed, but it's starting the process. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:32, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ While we're on the topic, is there a way to get the navigation popups to show a more interesting image instead of whatever happens to be in the first listing/marker in the article? It's unfortunate that when I hover over a link, the picture that comes up is often of an airport or some other unphotogenic transportation infrastructure instead of something more interesting and representative of the destination. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:06, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If memory serves, there is no clean way to do this. I suspect that @Quiddity (WMF) will be able to provide a definitive answer. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I can only point towards the documentation for the gadget (w:Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups#Features), which seem to indicate that it is possible to override which image is shown (see the bulletpoint equivalents of 2a and 2b). I have no experience using that particular feature, so I'd suggest testing it in a sandbox, and asking on the docs' talkpage if you have any difficulties. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 22:37, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Quiddity (WMF): Thanks! Copying the relevant bullet point here for others' benefit.

• The image shown in the preview can be controlled by adding an image hint to the article, in the form of an invisible HTML comment: <!-- popup [[File:Desired_Preview_Image.jpg]] -->.

I've tried to implement this in Guangzhou but with no success – the popup still shows a boring train station from Guangzhou#Get in, not the first image in the article and not the one in the HTML comment. I'll wait a while to see if there's a cache somewhere that needs to catch up, and if not then I'll ask on the docs' talk page. —Granger (talk · contribs) 21:07, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Granger After two days, I'm also seeing the same train station when on incognito mode. However, it does work with the gadget. So likely not cache. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:02, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I take it the HTML comment fix only applies to the "navigation popups" gadget, and not to the "page previews" that are shown to unregistered users and users who don't have the gadget enabled. Is there a way to fix this for page previews (as opposed to the navigation popups gadget)? @WhatamIdoing, Quiddity (WMF): —Granger (talk · contribs) 10:55, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Other suggestion, add the file and make the size as 1px. Have never tried that out before, but I'll experiment it soon. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:59, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That also doesn't seem to work. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:01, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For the extension version (PagePreviews) that unregistered users see, it uses another extension (PageImages) to select the image. The detailed technical docs of how it currently works are at mw:Extension:PageImages#Image_choice. However, there is an ongoing discussion, and it looks like some development work from a volunteer-developer, in phab:T91683 ("Allow editors control of the page image") about making it more editor-overridable. HTH! Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 20:26, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! It looks like there are some options for changing the algorithm that chooses images. I guess the simplest fix would be to set $wgPageImagesLeadSectionOnly to true so that PagePreviews only uses images from the lead. Then we would probably want to make sure articles have an image in the lead if possible (which is a nice thing to do anyway). What do others think about this idea? —Granger (talk · contribs) 06:52, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Many major destinations and Star articles lack images in the lead section. For articles that I've created or heavily edited, I avoid lead-section images so as not to clash/compete with banner images. I usually place the first image in Understand. --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 01:28, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes a lede image (such as the one seen in Zion National Park) actually resolves the job at times. I generally like to include one in the lede, but not all the time such as the one seen in Hartz Mountains National Park (but instead you see a boring tree). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:36, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nelson Ricardo 2500: In that case, if we implement my suggestion, I think we would need to either add images to the leads of those articles or accept that their previews will not have images. To me that seems worth it for the sake of avoiding these boring images of airports and train stations in so many articles' previews. I'd say no image in the preview is better than an image of an unremarkable train station. But of course I'm open to other suggestions if anyone has any. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:28, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your continued comments and ideas on the Universal Code of Conduct enforcement guidelines. Your responses have helped to build a stronger Universal Code of Conduct.

If you have not already provided your comments, now is the time as the drafting committee has been meeting to update the enforcement guidelines. The drafting committee wants to consider all comments as they make their updates. Please submit any comments by the end of November. The Committee hopes to finish its revisions before the end of the year, and the revised guidelines will be published as soon as they have been completed.

The next steps for the Universal Code of Conduct include conversations about ratification of the enforcement guidelines. There will be a conversation about ratification on Nov 29.

The Wikimedia Foundation will make recommendations to the Board of Trustees about the ratification of the guidelines in December. The recommendations will inform the next steps in the Universal Code of Conduct process.

Best, Zuz (WMF) (talk) 15:53, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello!

We, the team working on the Community Wishlist Survey, would like to invite you to an online meeting with us. It will take place on 30 November (Tuesday), 17:00 UTC on Zoom, and will last an hour. Click here to join.

Agenda

• Changes to the Community Wishlist Survey 2022. Help us decide.
• Become a Community Wishlist Survey Ambassador. Help us spread the word about the CWS in your community.
• Questions and answers

Format

The meeting will not be recorded or streamed. Notes without attribution will be taken and published on Meta-Wiki. The presentation (all points in the agenda except for the questions and answers) will be given in English.

We can answer questions asked in English, French, Polish, Spanish, German, and Italian. If you would like to ask questions in advance, add them on the Community Wishlist Survey talk page or send to [email protected].

Natalia Rodriguez (the Community Tech manager) will be hosting this meeting.

Invitation link

• Join online
• Meeting ID: 82035401393
• Dial by your location

We hope to see you! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Board of Trustees is preparing a call for feedback about the upcoming Board Elections, from January 7 - February 10, 2022.

While details will be finalized the week before the call, we have confirmed at least two questions that will be asked during this call for feedback:

• What is the best way to ensure fair representation of emerging communities among the Board?
• What involvement should candidates have during the election?

While additional questions may be added, the Movement Strategy and Governance team wants to provide time for community members and affiliates to consider and prepare ideas on the above confirmed questions before the call opens. Community members can also organise local conversations during the call. You can find more information about this upcoming call for feedback here.

Best, Zuz (WMF) (talk) 23:46, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

On the pages for UK, USA and probably several others, we say you need an ID to show you are over 18/21/whatever to be let in to bars or allowed to buy alcohol.

I suppose that is true for young people, but isn't the bouncer allowed to believe the word of a 50 years old? Here most shops require people looking younger than 30 to show an ID, and I think that gives a good margin (drinking age is 18), enough to perhaps leave some non-teenager foreigners thirsty.

Should we try to say explicitly when these requirements concern or don't concern also people who don't look like teenagers? You might not want to carry your passport needlessly, and that is often your only acceptable ID. Are other IDs commonly accepted round the world?

–LPfi (talk) 16:19, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We have considered a youth travel article for the benefits and concerns that young people can meet when travelling. Can also be mentioned in travelling with children and senior travel. /Yvwv (talk) 16:21, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In the US, the law doesn't require you to show an id; the law requires the business to comply with the selling age. Therefore, each business makes its own business policy decision about how to stay in legal compliance. I have seen places that card everyone except obviously elderly people, and I have seen places that don't seem to card anyone. It is typical to have staff guess at ages and card only the people who look younger, but there is no standard. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:58, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose a 50 years old would count as "obviously elderly" in this context, which would mean they wouldn't need to show IDs anywhere. It was the same here, but now the 30 years have become a stated standard, perhaps because of some campaign. –LPfi (talk) 20:58, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've been rejected entry into bars and refuse service at liquor stores in the U.S. for not carrying my passport back when I was new here and only had my Australian driving licence. Now that I have my U.S. driving licence, I can use that as my proof of age, but before I got it, it was a hit and miss as to whether my Australian licence was accepted as proof of age. I guess it might be state dependent, because I noticed that my Australian ID was more likely to be accepted in New York than in Chicago.

In Singapore they are actually quite strict about this; foreign-issued I.D. cards are generally not accepted, with the exception of Malaysian identity cards, which some businesses accept. If you are working or studying in Singapore you will be issued a work permit and student pass respectively, and that can be used as your I.D. card, but if you are a tourist, you have to bring your passport. The dog2 (talk) 21:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There are plenty of bars in New York that require proof of age from everyone, regardless of how old they are. Anyone who wants to go to bars should bring a picture ID with proof of age, just to avoid the possibility of being refused entry. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:09, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

LP, I know of one restaurant where the standard was "white hair". A 50-year-old would probably be carded there. (That restaurant usually hired teenagers for the serving staff, and you probably don't want your business to depend on whether a 16 year old guessed right.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:06, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This was a while back (like 2011?). In Atlanta, a bar accepted my Canadian driver license as proof of age ID. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 22:41, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm 56, and it's not at all uncommon for me to be carded in New York, although now, all bets are off because you have to show ID and proof of vaccination, anyway (and furthermore, I haven't been inside a bar in several weeks for safety reasons). Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:50, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Canadian licences are different from other foreign licences because of the close relationship between the U.S. and Canada. In much the same way, New Zealand licences are more likely to be recognised in Australia than other foreign licences. The dog2 (talk) 06:39, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is now open!

This survey is the process where communities decide what the Community Tech team should work on over the next year. We encourage everyone to submit proposals until the deadline on 23 January, or comment on other proposals to help make them better. The communities will vote on the proposals between 28 January and 11 February.

The Community Tech team is focused on tools for experienced Wikimedia editors. You can write proposals in any language, and we will translate them for you. Thank you, and we look forward to seeing your proposals! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 18:10, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Call for Feedback: Board of Trustees elections is now open and will close on 7 February 2022.

With this Call for Feedback, the Movement Strategy and Governance team is taking a different approach. This approach incorporates community feedback from 2021. Instead of leading with proposals, the Call is framed around key questions from the Board of Trustees. The key questions came from the feedback about the 2021 Board of Trustees election. The intention is to inspire collective conversation and collaborative proposal development about these key questions.

There are two confirmed questions that will be asked during this Call for Feedback:

1. What is the best way to ensure more diverse representation among elected candidates? The Board of Trustees noted the importance of selecting candidates who represent the full diversity of the Wikimedia movement. The current processes have favored volunteers from North America and Europe.
2. What are the expectations for the candidates during the election? Board candidates have traditionally completed applications and answered community questions. How can an election provide appropriate insight into candidates while also appreciating candidates’ status as volunteers?

There is one additional question that may be presented during the Call about selection processes. This question is still under discussion, but the Board wanted to give insight into the confirmed questions as soon as possible. Hopefully if an additional question is going to be asked, it will be ready during the first week of the Call for Feedback.

Join the conversation.

Best,

Movement Strategy and Governance, Zuz (WMF) (talk) 17:44, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's a useful tool named XTools that can show you data about your or someone else's editing, such as what pages you've edited the most, how many edits you've made in a month, and several other interesting stats. It's helpful for a lot of things, such as knowing if an editor is active or inactive, seeing if someone is more focused on mainspace or projectspace, and keeping track of what the quality of the articles you've made the most edits to is.

For many projects (including most of the largest), every XTools statistic is opted into by default. However, on Wikivoyage, most of the stats require manually creating Special:MyPage/EditCounterOptIn.js, which makes it a lot less useful. Would there be any interest in making XTools opt-in by default on Wikivoyage? Vaticidalprophet (talk) 17:51, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer the current system, which I think maintains more privacy. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 19:14, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a strong view for myself, but I do think that whenever someone expresses a preference for privacy, then we should support that as much as we can. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:20, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Those who want to see the stats about themselves can opt in. Seeing the stats about others can be useful, but I think privacy concerns have a higher weight. I am really worried about how much one could figure out about and through your activities on Wikipedia and related sites, but at least not everything is made easily available. Most people don't understand the issues, so we cannot expect them to opt out from anything. –LPfi (talk) 12:50, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd favour the current system. Whether someone's made edits to mainspace or projectspace can already be seen, it's just which articles they've contributed to the most needs the authorization. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:43, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(after one month), I now favour @Vaticidalprophet's proposal because I'd like to know which articles have been internally copied without attribution by a certain editor (includes both pages they have created and pages they haven't created but improved). I won't mention the name of the editor, but I'm happy to tell which one thru email. Similarly, there's another editor who has added hundreds of listings that are in the wrong article – both the pages they created, and ones that they have improved. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:55, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

We, the team working on the Community Wishlist Survey, would like to invite you to an online meeting with us. It will take place on 19 January (Wednesday), 18:00 UTC on Zoom, and will last an hour. This external system is not subject to the WMF Privacy Policy. Click here to join.

Agenda

• Bring drafts of your proposals and talk to to a member of the Community Tech Team about your questions on how to improve the proposal

Format

The meeting will not be recorded or streamed. Notes without attribution will be taken and published on Meta-Wiki. The presentation (all points in the agenda except for the questions and answers) will be given in English.

We can answer questions asked in English, French, Polish, Spanish, and German. If you would like to ask questions in advance, add them on the Community Wishlist Survey talk page or send to [email protected].

Natalia Rodriguez (the Community Tech manager) will be hosting this meeting.

Invitation link

• Join online
• Meeting ID: 85804347114
• Dial by your location

We hope to see you! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 00:21, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dear community members,

Greetings from the EWOC Newsletter team and the education team at Wikimedia Foundation. We are very excited to share that we on tenth years of Education Newsletter (This Month in Education) invite you to join us by subscribing to the newsletter on your talk page or by sharing your activities in the upcoming newsletters. The Wikimedia Education newsletter is a monthly newsletter that collects articles written by community members using Wikimedia projects in education around the world, and it is published by the EWOC Newsletter team in collaboration with the Education team. These stories can bring you new ideas to try, valuable insights about the success and challenges of our community members in running education programs in their context.

If your affiliate/language project is developing its own education initiatives, please remember to take advantage of this newsletter to publish your stories with the wider movement that shares your passion for education. You can submit newsletter articles in your own language or submit bilingual articles for the education newsletter. For the month of January the deadline to submit articles is on the 20th January. We look forward to reading your stories.

Older versions of this newsletter can be found in the complete archive.

More information about the newsletter can be found at Education/Newsletter/About.

For more information, please contact spatnaikwikimedia.org.

More languages • Please help translate to your language

Movement Strategy and Governance News
Issue 5, January 2022Read the full newsletter

Welcome to the fifth issue of Movement Strategy and Governance News (formerly known as Universal Code of Conduct News)! This revamped newsletter distributes relevant news and events about the Movement Charter, Universal Code of Conduct, Movement Strategy Implementation grants, Board elections and other relevant MSG topics.

This Newsletter will be distributed quarterly, while more frequent Updates will also be delivered weekly or bi-weekly to subscribers. Please remember to subscribe here if you would like to receive these updates.

Zuz (WMF) (talk) 08:21, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you are interested in design, I encourage you to spend a moment at the Main Page at the Sudanese Wikipedia. It looks to me like they have adopted Wikivoyage's carousel system. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:51, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's really interesting. One thing I felt that English Wikivoyage has done better than the English Wikipedia is have a more modern and better looking main page. The current English Wikipedia main page was designed in March 2006, an eternity ago in internet time. Gizza ^(roam) 03:48, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The English Wikibooks' main page looks like it was designed a long time ago, much more old-fashioned than Wikipedia's. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:51, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tangential, but while on the topic of front page design, w:nv: has rainbow gradients that I always liked, even if they are probably not attractive to everyone. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 10:19, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

w:se: (Sami language) got a professional redesign and now incorporates culturally relevant elements. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:31, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's interesting because it looks to have some responsive design that I don't recall seeing on any wikis. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:42, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I wanted to give you an update about the Desktop Improvements project, which the Wikimedia Foundation Web team has been working on for the past few years.

The goals of the project are to make the interface more welcoming and comfortable for readers and useful for advanced users. The project consists of a series of feature improvements which make it easier to read and learn, navigate within the page, search, switch between languages, use article tabs and the user menu, and more.

The improvements are already visible by default for readers and editors on 24 wikis, including Wikipedias in French, Portuguese, and Persian.

The changes apply to the Vector skin only. Monobook or Timeless users are not affected.

How to enable the improvements

• It is possible to opt-in individually in the appearance tab within the preferences by unchecking the "Use Legacy Vector" box. (It has to be empty.) Also, it is possible to opt-in on all wikis using the global preferences.
• If you think this would be good as a default for all readers and editors of this wiki, feel free to start a conversation with the community and contact me.
• On wikis where the changes are visible by default for all, logged-in users can always opt-out to the Legacy Vector. There is an easily accessible link in the sidebar of the new Vector.

Hello everyone,

The Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC) Enforcement Guidelines were published 24 January 2022 as a proposed way to apply the Universal Code of Conduct across the movement. Comments about the guidelines can be shared here or the Meta-wiki talk page.

There will be conversations on Zoom on 4 February 2022 at 15:00 UTC, 25 February 2022 at 12:00 UTC, and 4 March 2022 at 15:00 UTC. Join the UCoC project team and drafting committee members to discuss the guidelines and voting process.

The timeline is available on Meta-wiki. The voting period is March 7 to 21. See the voting information page for more details.

You can read the full announcement here. Thank you to everyone who has participated so far.

Sincerely,

Movement Strategy and Governance
Wikimedia Foundation

Zuz (WMF) (talk) 09:36, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy new year to everyone. From Brisbane down, the information is replaced by a script error with red text reading: "The time allocated for running scripts has expired." Does anyone know what's causing this and how to fix it? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to be a Lua problem where there are too many modules in one page. Do you know if it ever worked? Were a bunch of new entries added? Did a template used on this page get changed so that it calls multiple modules? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 11:57, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Justin. In answer to your questions in order: Yes, no (both with certainty). I don't know.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:59, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hm. Weird that it just started then. As someone who doesn't know a lot about modules, I would recommend that a quick fix is to split the article by continents and file a ticket at phab:. Someone smarter than me may know more (but that's always true about everything :/). —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:01, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Works for me now. Perhaps there were some temporary load issues spilling over on the processor time measured (or changing the limits)? Anyway, it might be good not to push the limits. Wikivoyage is quite heavy on processing; are there ways to optimise the listing templates, or other ways to avoid certain pages be very processing-heavy? –LPfi (talk) 13:33, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's also working for me too. We can always file a Phabricator ticket if it becomes a recurring problem. I think we're 14 airports away before we have to split in some way, either by using different colour markers or separate sub-articles.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:03, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like the PEIS limit, if anyone is curious. I asked around after it a little while ago but couldn't find anyone who would admit to fully understanding how the devs decided what the limit should be. The workaround is straightforward: split large pages, and optimize templates. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:32, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Most time is used for fetching the Wikidata datasets, as you can learn it from html code. It contains a NewPP limit report. Getting the entities takes about 6 seconds which is a huge value which is maybe attributed to the complex airport datasets (and which increases by time because of software additions). The total Lua computing time is near the 10-seconds limit, i.e., sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't work. I made a copy to the German Wikivoyage at de:Benutzer:RolandUnger/Flughäfen. It confirmed the huge computing time for getting the entities. But it also shows that the listing scripts can be optimized because it takes only 8 seconds computing time at all which is less by 2 seconds compared to the English Wikivoyage. This shorter computing time prevents any Lua time errors.

Under normal conditions, in locations articles can be fetched up to 250 different Wikidata sets as can be seen from de:Halle (Saale). Surely, the computing times of Scribunto_LuaSandboxCallback::getEntity and Scribunto_LuaSandboxCallback::callParserFunction should be reduced. And sometimes I made a bug report on phabricator but only minor changes were made removing the bugs. --RolandUnger (talk) 16:46, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Since getting fundamental changes to the amount of memory we have is difficult and relies on developers, I propose that we split this article preemptively. We can locally control how many templates and scripts are on a page, so we should be on the lookout for pages that we think may fail. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:27, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also, it's failing for me around New York City now. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:32, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone check this article again? -- Matroc (talk) 04:07, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind -- I republished the article with no changes and I could see the article. Once I looked elsewhere and came back it was showing errors. One can get page to appear if they ?action=purge (Purge article) - This points me to think in the direction of memory as well.. -- Matroc (talk) 04:15, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• We could remove the Wikidata calls from that article without doing much harm. Every airport listed has a wikilink to its Wikivoyage article, so the Wikidata and Wikipedia icons are not really needed. We may as well encourage readers to click on the internal link and read our article instead of going to Wikipedia or Wikidata. —Granger (talk · contribs) 19:52, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just first copy the coords from Wikidata to the listing, unless they are there already, to avoid having to copy them by hand later. –LPfi (talk) 20:09, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at Airport articles/Sandbox. This article is based on Module:Marker (currently through Template:Listing/sandbox and Template:Marker/sandbox) instead of Module:Map.

If you compare the LUA profile of Airport articles vs Airport articles/Sandbox, you'll see that the first one download 85 Wikidata instances while the second zero. That's why the loading time has been dramatically reduced. To properly compare the loading time you should purge the articles, opening at the same time the following two links:

1. https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Airport_articles&action=purge
2. https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Airport_articles/Sandbox&action=purge

If there is a consensus to go in this direction I'll complete the new module to allow to retrive the coords when missing, BUT take into account that anytime the coords will be downloaded from Wikidata (because not written explicitly into the listing template), this will affect again the performance (less than they do today, but still affect). --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:10, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Justin, ThunderingTyphoons!, LPfi, WhatamIdoing, Matroc, Granger: what's your feedback between:

1. use the current template (coords -and potentially other info- are always downloaded from Wikidata regardless what's written in the wikicode)
2. use the new module as it is (no coords from Wikidata)
3. use a new revised module (that will download the coords from wikidata, only when not provided within the listing).

Let me know and I'll proceed accordingly, --Andyrom75 (talk) 08:41, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think #3 should be just fine, especially if a bot checks coordinates and imports them every [x] days from Wikidata. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:43, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto as Justin. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:49, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy to go with anything that works.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:09, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If #3 is easy to implement and not too heavy, I think that's the ideal solution. We should copy most coords to the listings – at the latest when the templates time out – but there will be new listings from time to time, and coords are not always listed for them. A bot importing coordinates would be nice, but I think new airport articles are created seldom enough that it can be handled by hand, if we get into the habit or are reminded when there are too many listings lacking them. –LPfi (talk) 10:37, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer #3 without a bot. Sometimes I don't want the coordinates from Wikidata (e.g., when I want coords for the entrance but they want coords for the center of the attraction). WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:22, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer #3 with a bot which only downloads the co-ordinates if they are missing from the article. Sometimes our co-ordinates are deliberately quite different from WD, listings for large features like rivers are an extreme example.

On other articles, an additional benefit of having the co-ordinates in the article is that this displays the markers on the full screen map (from the icon at the top right of a destination article). Wikidata co-ordinates aren't displayed on the full screen map. AlasdairW (talk) 23:19, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've just updated the module, now it retrives the coords from Wikidata if not present in the listing.

The effect in the article (where are present 80 listing with coords and 5 without) is that now just 5 Wikidata entities are queried for coords. As anticipated this cause a loading time increased that is difficult to estimate because too many factors affect it (that's why sometimes the original article was perfectly rendered and sometimes got LUA error in its bottom part), but roughly I would say at least 1 second more.

Before put it into "production", feel free to perform some test using "Template:Listing/sandbox" instead of "Template:Listing" and let me know when and if you are confident for the switch.

After put it into production we should monitor this category to be sure that no further article will converge here. Any page of that category needs to be fixed. PS There are already few articles there... --Andyrom75 (talk) 17:21, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've just cleaned all the "Pages_with_script_errors". The remaining two are there for different reasons.

• User:Buzzy: uses 291 markers with 291 wikidata parameters without coords; using the module and adding the coords the issue will be solved
• User:Pbsouthwood/Dive_sites: uses 553 markers; too much. I suppose the only way to solve the problem is to split the page in two or more subpages.

--Andyrom75 (talk) 23:42, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Without any further feedback, I've boldly put into production the new revised module. Please, promptly highlight (& ping) me any issue you may notice. As expected User:Buzzy page has been automatically fixed, although it takes almost 8 seconds to elaborate the code (very close to the 10 seconds limit). The other one will keep on failing randomly as previously explained. --Andyrom75 (talk) 20:02, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think that #3 is a viable solution.

• Consider changing the editor to automatically supply the missing lat/long coordinates from Wikidata if needed. (Chop format them up to 6 numbers on right of period). Otherwise enter lat/long manually?
• Airport articles will soon hit the infamous 99 limit. Perhaps use color markers to avoid numbering issue?
• Maps - Perhaps use group and show. 1 main map for all (with a legend pointing to each area) - individual maps for groupings ie. Africa, Asia etc. or a page link to the main map centering on the area of interest. This might reduce mapbuilding costs as well. If time permits I will see if I can make an example. -- Matroc (talk) 06:07, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Example I made - this will remain for a few days if interested - Example -- Matroc (talk) 18:50, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Matroc, if you are talking of the listing editor in your first point, I can say that the wikidata sync is possible but shall be explicitly requested by the user (it's not automatic) and regarding the coords, it already round the number with just 6 decimals. --Andyrom75 (talk) 17:22, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Thanks for input! -- Matroc (talk) 18:50, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The sitewide page views showed a slightly strange pattern last year. We had two big spikes. The first spike, however, didn't correlate with a spike in unique devices (the second did).

To get a clearer view, it may be helpful to click the option for "Begin at zero" on the graph. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:01, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The first spike in February and March was similar to a spike in February 2018. For many of us it was during a time of near lockdown, and so was prob1ably caused my armchair travellers, unlike the second peak in August which was when travel was easier for many. From May 2020 onwards, the average monthly page views is about 2/3 of months before. The trends for other languages have some similarities.

Looking at individual articles, Around the World in Eighty Days has grown in popularity from being the 65th most popular page in September to the 4th most popular last month. A BBC TV series very loosely based on the book started showing in late December, which has obviously caused this. AlasdairW (talk) 00:42, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi all, Can anyone point me to where the explanation for the related pages links displayed below articles can be found? Cheers, • • • Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 13:07, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• @Pbsouthwood: This is our policy on Wikivoyage:Internal links. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:03, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The template is useful for fixing strange suggestions or prioritizing certain articles. Another way to fix strange suggestions is to edit the linked article.

  The linked pages are chosen according to how similar the articles seem to be. You can check the results for any article by putting morelike:Article into the regular search bar. For example, the nine pages listed at the bottom of Iowa match the first nine search results at Special:Search/morelike:Iowa. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:52, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks @WhatamIdoing:, This is what I was looking for. How are the articles actually selected? (what makes one "morelike" another?} Cheers, • • • Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 18:20, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I've heard that it looks for similar words and similar links. The official documentation is at https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/current/query-dsl-mlt-query.html WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:54, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks @WhatamIdoing:, your ability to come up with a useful answer is much appreciated. Am I correct in assuming that the template you mention above is {{related}}, and that those articles tagged as related will jump to the top of the queue? • • • Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 05:30, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, that's the template. I believe that if you use the template (or its underlying magic word) that the rest of the automatic list is completely suppressed (not just the top of the queue). WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:37, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In response to my question at the Wikimedia support desk, TheDJ explained that the problem was caused by Template:Confused not being wrapped in <span class="noexcerpt"> ... </span>. I propose that we do this, as it seems costless to readers/editors and would improve compatibility with the Wikimedia API. (Other templates, e.g. Template:Other uses, are already wrapped.)

I apparently have rights to do this myself, and it looks simple enough, but I don't particularly want to, given that I have zero experience editing Wikimedia templates and I don't know their pitfalls. If we agree that this should be done, I am hoping that somebody with a bit more experience in this area could make the change. Brycehughes (talk) 13:52, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It seemed to be a no-brainer, so I did the change. If somebody sees any pitfalls, please check or undo. In the bug discussion, also "role=note" was recommended, but I am not sure what that does, so did not add it. –LPfi (talk) 14:11, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Weirdly, the API call's "extract" value is just a \n character now. Wondering out loud... would your change propagate that fast to the API? Damn, I should have tested it immediately before posting here. I guess I'll give it a few days and try again and if it's still being weird I'll follow up somewhere. Brycehughes (talk) 14:26, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I moved the image out of the way in the article just in case that was causing any weirdness. Will see what happens. Brycehughes (talk) 14:40, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I first tried to include everything in the <span></span>, but that made the ":" not work. Seems it uses the first paragraph, and the ":" line is interpreted as that first line. Extension:TextExtracts does not tell how to get around this. Adding a blank line? But span shouldn't span paragraph breaks. HTML for the ":"? –LPfi (talk) 15:17, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think the ":" is what TheDJ was referring to in the second half of the response? I think he might be saying we shouldn't use the ":" for indentation and instead use the CSS styling he suggests – this might allow us to kill two birds with one stone, but also seems to relate to a larger issue with our use of ":" in templates. I wonder if that CSS styling is documented anywhere. I could ask him in my MW support thread (though I kinda hate pestering those guys). Brycehughes (talk) 16:55, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Probably yes, to all of those. MediaWiki should have rendered ":" as <span ...> to begin with, but I suppose it is too late for that. I don't know what side effects changing the ":" to something else in all templates would have, but perhaps some of the technical folks here could comment. –LPfi (talk) 20:22, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Okay I followed up on my MW thread. Will report back. Brycehughes (talk) 22:35, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi LPfi, TheDJ responded and kindly implemented some fixes over here. The extract for Sun River works now, but it is a bit of a naive solution and in his response TheDJ notes a couple points of action: 1) He provides an example of using CSS styling to implement the indent, rather than using the ":"; 2) Noting the weirdness with the Template:Page banner in interacting with the extract parser, he suggests we "definitely add 'noexcerpt' to the hidden span with country data". I'll admit that (1) is a bit over my head and (2) I don't really understand, although it seems it might be a quick fix for somebody who knew what they were doing. So, a couple questions... do you understand both (1) and (2)? And do you think there is any fierce urgency to pursue these fixes now? One benefit that TheDJ mentioned was improved Google indexing, which might be a win for the site as a whole. Brycehughes (talk) 18:04, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take a look later. Ping me if I haven't commented here in a week. –LPfi (talk) 18:24, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Will do. Thanks. Brycehughes (talk) 00:39, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi LPfi, as promised. Personally, I'm not too fussed about this. If you feel like taking a look at TheDJ's suggestions, fantastic. But I'm not really sure of their importance and if you don't have the bandwidth right now I'm happy to shelve this to potentially bring it up again if I notice any weirdness in the future. Thanks, Brycehughes (talk) 19:35, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I think I am going to do it at some time – not knowing how this works bugs me – but I think I'd better save it for another time. –LPfi (talk) 19:58, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do you create interactive maps with Kartographer (mapframe)? If your answer is yes, we would like to hear from you. Please take part in our survey and help improve Kartographer! Where do you run into problems using it? Which new features would you like to see? Editors of all experience levels and with all workflows around Kartographer are welcome to participate.

Here is the survey: https://wikimedia.sslsurvey.de/Kartographer-Workflows-EN/

• The survey is open until March 31.
• It takes 10-15 minutes to complete.
• The survey is anonymous. You don't need to register, and we will not store any personal data which identifies you, such as your name or IP address.

Unfortunately, the survey is only available in English, but we have tried our best to use simple English and to add visual examples. If English is not your native language, it might help to use a translation tool in your browser.

Some background: Wikimedia Germany's Technical Wishes team is currently working on the Kartographer extension. Over the last few months, we have been working on a solution to make this software usable on wikis where it isn’t available yet. In the next phase of the project, we are planning to improve Kartographer itself. Because Kartographer is used quite a lot on this wiki, we would love to hear about your experiences. More information on our work with Kartographer and the focus area of Geoinformation can be found on our project page.

Thank you for your help! – Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 08:51, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Who are our best map people? What problems are we having? This is a really important opportunity to ask for what we need, and we should not miss it. We've got 10 days. What can we do, to help them understand what we need? WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:09, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As someone who likes experimenting with dynamic maps, if there's two thing that I'd like, it's that we have

• topographic maps (showing elevation) – useful for remote areas where elevations matter and can travellers plan
• Get maps designed to look both from the perspective of the North and South Poles. Useful for travel topics such as Northern Lights SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 20:18, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't that about using a different map projection (such as a "polar Azimuthal equidistant projection"? Do the underlying tool's provide that as an option? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 07:39, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• WhatamIdoing, Would this be relevant to the failure of Template:Regionlist to toggle on mobile? • • • Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 14:01, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, I'm sure that's something they should be hearing about. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:43, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Pbsouthwood I think this is more a Wikimedia issue than a Kartographer one, however, if they would solve it I'll be more than glad :-) Andyrom75 (talk) 16:37, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Andyrom75, @JIP, @Matroc, @FredTC, you all mentioned map problems and templates above on this page. Would you please click on https://wikimedia.sslsurvey.de/Kartographer-Workflows-EN/ and tell Johanna about it? The survey has several questions (e.g., are you mostly a reader, an editor, a template maintainer?) and the third page is all about problems. There are places to add your own text, and links to prior discussions are helpful. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:48, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks @WhatamIdoing for the ping. Andyrom75 (talk) 16:35, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ah rats. I only saw this survey just now. I remember that there was an issue with this extension if the points cross over the 180th meridian. The points don't show side by side if it crosses this line, but rather wrapped around the prime meridian. You can see that in Taveuni in Fiji. (Others like the Kiribati, Aleutian Islands in Alaska, Chukotka in Russia and Antarctica are also susceptible). OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 14:36, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.

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The Community Resilience and Sustainability team at the Wikimedia Foundation is hosting a conversation hour led by its Vice President Maggie Dennis.

Topics within scope for this call include Movement Strategy, Board Governance, Trust and Safety, the Universal Code of Conduct, Community Development, and Human Rights. Come with your questions and feedback, and let's talk! You can also send us your questions in advance.

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The ratification voting process for the revised enforcement guidelines of the Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC) came to a close on 21 March 2022. Over 2300 Wikimedians voted across different regions of our movement. Thank you to everyone who participated in this process! The scrutinizing group is now reviewing the vote for accuracy, so please allow up to two weeks for them to finish their work.

The final results from the voting process will be announced here, along with the relevant statistics and a summary of comments as soon as they are available. Please check out the voter information page to learn about the next steps. You can comment on the project talk page on Meta-wiki in any language. You may also contact the UCoC project team by email: ucocprojectwikimedia.org

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Zuz (WMF) (talk) 09:11, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

shn: is being imported as we speak: a pretty incredible achievement for that community, as its 3.3 million speakers are localized in Burma and there is not a large Internet presence there as well as some serious internal difficulties with different ethnic populations, so congrats on all their hard work and တွၼ်ႈ (ကြို+ဆို+ပါ၏) to our comrades who are spreading free knowledge and culture for the world's benefit. (Sorry to all of my new Shan friends: I am too ignorant to use the interjection "welcome" and only know the verb...) —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:58, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extracts for a huge number of Wikivoyage articles on the V1 Rest API seem to suddenly be missing. For example, France (empty string in the "extract" field) and NYC (just a newline character). Did something change here recently? Thanks. Brycehughes (talk) 16:41, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Brycehughes, could you check again? Andyrom75 (talk) 16:50, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Andyrom75, still seems to be the case. I asked over at mw too. Brycehughes (talk) 16:56, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For comparison, London still works, but comparing the London vs. New York City articles I don't see anything that looks like a salient difference. Brycehughes (talk) 17:04, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Update: it's the page banner template. I tested it on Fada. Removing the page banner template restored the extract in the REST API summary call. But London has a page banner template as well, so I'm really not sure what is going on. Brycehughes (talk) 17:13, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see the following output:

Is it ok? --Andyrom75 (talk) 17:27, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Compare the "extract" field on those two. Notice the France one is empty (""), while the London one has the extract ("Noisy, vibrant and truly multicultural..."). The extract field is what websites (like Google with en.wp) use to create page summaries in their results. For some reason this seems to be missing in a ton (maybe the majority) of wv pages now. The mediawiki extract parser is choking on something. Brycehughes (talk) 17:32, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, how's this for a crazy idea? I'd like to minimize the problem, and right now I am assuming that the problem, or at least the code that is choking the parser, lies somewhere in the Pagebanner template. What if I created a new, temporary template (not entirely sure that I have the permissions to do this), and I copied the Pagebanner template code to that new template. I then pick some obscure page, let's say Fada, where I replace the Pagebanner template with my own copy. I can then start deleting components in my own template until I find the line that is breaking the parser. Armed with that information (assuming my plan works), I can then approach the MediaWiki parsing team and say, "hey, I believe this code is breaking the parser". With luck they'd be able to tell me whether it is a problem on our end or on their end and perhaps even what to do about it. Does this sound insane? If it does, anyone have a better idea on how I can sandbox/start tackling this? Thanks, Brycehughes (talk) 15:40, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not a crazy idea. The approach is often used for finding a software bug: try to find the simplest code that triggers it. There are bugs that are hard to find this way, especially those that appear in a quasi-random fashion, such as often when race conditions or exhaustion of some odd resource are involved. If this started to happen recently, without changes to the template, it can easily be something odd. –LPfi (talk) 18:08, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh... yeah... I think we got ourselves a Heisenbug. Added my test template to Fada, extract returned properly. Then rolled it back to original page template banner and the extract is still there :facepalm: Brycehughes (talk) 18:53, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Freaking bizarre. All it takes to restore the extract is to delete the Pagebanner template, save the page, and then restore it. Seems like this is definitely one for the Mediawiki folks. Thanks all. LPfi, perhaps you could delete Template:Test1pagebanner when you get a chance? Brycehughes (talk) 19:24, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for trying it out. I leave the test template for the time being, we might still want to do some experimenting. –LPfi (talk) 19:40, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, cheers. Brycehughes (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Looks like there's a bug report out for this (or at least a very similar issue)... since November :/ Brycehughes (talk) 19:06, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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21:28, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Wikivoyage's 10th anniversary is already coming up?! It feels like the 5th was just a little while ago. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:41, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't here back in 2018, but time really has flown since then. It seems that the museum piece (aka The Other Site) is only getting worse day by day based on a weekly check I do. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 20:52, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is what I can do for the upcoming 10-year anniversary of Wikivoyage. A video to put on the YouTube channel. Video- https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b4EJKWyB9bZDibAEmDgGQ0wfPsYCsw-q/view . It took about 2 hours. Suggest some changes or correction and feel free to criticize Cheers! :) 2006nishan178713^t@lk 19:41, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@2006nishan178713 Nice video – don't think there's anything criticise, even if you go extra nitpicky ;-). The only thing I'd say is that the 31000 could become 32000 soon (we currently have 33,274, and if we manage to create a little over 700, it may become 32000 soon). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:14, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes! 2006nishan178713^t@lk 12:44, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And, of course, it's been around since 2003, but was only adopted later. It was a very early MediaWiki wiki. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:08, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If we count since the first wikivoyage was migrated would be Sep 23. If we count since the first wikivoyage accepted, Jan 07 (eswikivoyage). But our birthday is Jan 15! Galahad (sasageyo!)^(esvoy) 23:50, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]