The following pages were proposed on Project:Destination of the Month candidates, but the consensus was generally against them. Beneath each proposed article are the objections that need to be addressed. Once this has been done, feel free to nominate them again.

Carrollton (Virginia)[edit]

Place: Carrollton Blurb: Carrollton (Virginia) is a bedroom community of Norfolk with great places to eat, small town charm, and is a short drive away from bigger cities (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Yearround Nominated by: Someonehere12345 (talk) 03:56, 28 January 2024 (UTC)Someonehere12345[reply] Comment: Great article, Its a good place to visit anytime of the year

Nomination

• Needs work – for me, this article is barely a guide (but still one nonetheless per the criteria). It is complete, but that does not necessarily equate to being featurable. For one, more should be added to the "See", "Do", "Buy" and "Sleep" sections with it clearly mentioning that they are the only place to see, do, buy or sleep. The Understand section could do with a lot more content as it is rather dull and monotonous as things stand. More could also be done to explain how to visit the town for those who don't drive and other car-free alternatives, including getting in from the airport + railway station. I might add a bit more to this list, but they are a few things to add. Don't let my comment discourage you – please keep up the good work you do – but things need to be near-perfect for it to be on the Main Page and I hope you can understand my remarks. Best, --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:18, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Ok, I just did some more research, I added in the get around section the only bus route that goes through Carrollton being Hampton Roads Transit Route 964, You will still need a car but it does provide the alternative to public transit (although it only stops in Carrollton twice a day as mentioned in the article.) Someonehere12345 (talk) 16:34, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  If it's a 2bpd service doesn't sound very usable to me – it should be mentioned in the article. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 13:04, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  As there is only one stop in Carrollton, I moved the bus info to Get in. It could be used to connect with a train at Newport News. AlasdairW (talk) 22:50, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks, Alasdair :-). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:11, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Needs some work. I think this is stretching the meaning of guide. We have a list of two supermarkets, one of which is "The only supermarket in Carrollton". None of the eat or drink listings have detailed descriptions, or give the impression that the writer has actually walked through the door. The Do listings are also lacking in detail. Is one historic building to look at from the outside all there is to see? AlasdairW (talk) 23:38, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Ok, I changed the listing for Food Lion, to say the main supermarket, which it is, since the other is really more of a meat market. I didnt give too detailed of a descritpion, because I didnt want to be touting. And the Carroll home listing is the only thing I know of, that would qualify for a "see" listing. (Carrollton is not that big.) Someonehere12345 (talk) 18:06, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I later added a See listing for St Luke's Church, but I won't object if it is moved to Smithfield (Virginia) or elsewhere. So there are now two things to see. AlasdairW (talk) 22:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Someonehere12345, why do you equate detailed description with touting? Information != touting. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:19, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The way I look at it, Is that its better to have a very dry objective description (like italian food), then a detailed descripton which some people (not me but potentially some people) might view as touting or advertising Someonehere12345 (talk) 22:25, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Because touting risks being removed. Someonehere12345 (talk) 22:25, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Stating that x, y and z dishes are particularly good is not touting. There are lots of Italian restaurants. Why is this one in particular listed? I suggest you look at listings in star-rated articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I updated all of the eat and drink listing descriptions (with the exception of the supermarkets which were moved to the buy section). Are the descriptions detailed enough now? Someonehere12345 (talk) 18:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also updated the do listings. Please let me know if the eat/do listings fix your objections. Someonehere12345 (talk) 17:43, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Meh. This article fills me with soulless flatulence. The place lacks notoriety or anything remarkable. Aside from being an okay place to raise 2.5 kids in a suburban cape cod near schools and shopping, I don't really get the feeling this is a place that's even worth the gas it takes to pull off the interstate for a quick rest break. We have far better articles. Besides, there's far too many featured U.S. destinations as it is. Mrkstvns (talk) 19:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Mama Mia Pizzeria, Shang Hai restaurant and Food Lion supermarket all have the same address. Is it because they are all in the same strip mall? And why is Mama Mia Pizzeria's address being "13478 Carrollton Blvd M"? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 17:01, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  They are all in the same strip mall. I added M because thats where I saw the address listing, But thanks for pointing that out the mama mia address, when i was pulling addresses thats what I got. I deleted the M now for consistency sakes, since they are all the same strip mall. Someonehere12345 (talk) 17:06, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Not Yet In articles about places that lack attractions, it's important to give a spotlight to the things that do exist and you can give more information about each attracton without worrying about overpowering the article. As it is written, it does not make the town appealing. Ask yourself why should anyone go here? Why would anyone ever want to visit this city? What would interest or intrigue someone about this city? Add the answers to the article. In an article that is so dry, I'd suggest trying your hand at touting. The "no touting" rule is meant to prevent flowery promotional language. It is not intended to discourage telling visitors what is appealing, interesting, or special about a city or listing. It also needs more pictures. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:56, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Slush? There is next-to-zero consensus for featuring this article and very little has been done since. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 23:40, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, slush it. Pashley (talk) 13:31, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - If everything of interest in the town is listed, then it is a complete article. And we've featured some towns with very few listings as OtBP. That said, unlike e.g. Hyden and Crawford (Nebraska), Carrollton seems to be close to some more populous cities so maybe it would make sense to merge the article into either of them. --Ypsilon (talk) 13:47, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Those two are nicely written and there are a few more or less unique sights, which somebody might go there for. For Carrington we learn that it has experienced growth as a bedroom community, and the background to its name. Nothing in the lead or the Understand tells why I would want to go there. A guide article (and especially a feature) should tell why I would want to or why I'd end up there anyway.

  I'd imagine that you might want to stop in Carrington for a pizza, a specialty flavor icecream or the fish tacos (and that might be enough for us wanting the article), or for the oldest church in Virginia, but if so, why don't tell it up front?

  –LPfi (talk) 14:39, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Slush. I have to agree with OhanaUnited here: "Carrollton has experienced growth as a bedroom community" is the least exciting tagline ever. The Carroll family history is mildly interesting but it sounds like you can't actually enter any of those "truly historic Carrollton homes", meaning the only actual attraction of any kind is a church? Jpatokal (talk) 00:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

---

Outcome: slushed. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 22:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cycling in the United States[edit]

Place: Cycling in the United States Blurb: With greatly expanded infrastructure since the onset of COVID, the most difficult part of cycling in America is deciding where to go. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Year round Nominated by: ButteBag (talk) 00:48, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Speedy slushed a few weeks ago, I've asked on the pub and at Requests for comment pages, and got one response that this was at guide level. This topic interests me, and I spent a good deal of time breaking out the content into something digestible. It's kind of an armchair travel/bucket-list/thought starter type of article if you think that's interesting enough to be featured. The content is pretty evergreen. I won't spam you again with this, thanks!

Nomination

• Before I voice my support, I do question this:

  Racism — Sadly, the United States can be a racist place, and BIPOC cyclists should do additional research into their route. Cycling tends to be seen as a "white space", which will impact the amount of discrimination you experience. There are unfortunately no high-quality national resources for "biking while Black".

I interpret the second sentence as only Blacks being targeted, but what if you're of any other race? I haven't cycled in the US before, so I don't know the answer to this, but would I as someone who is not white nor black be victimised by racism? FWIW, I frequently take my bike out and ride for around 60–100 km (37–62 mi) from where I live and have never been a target for racism in my home city whilst cycling. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:36, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is the cyclist community in general a more racist one than the one for motorists, public transit riders, taxi drivers, or any other sector of American society? Are specific ethnic groups targeted? United States of America#Racism has a very different point of view, mentioning East Asians and Russians as particularly vulnerable. Without dismissing any of them, or anyone's personal experience of racism, the section should be more contextual. /Yvwv (talk) 16:58, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I think there should be an Understand section, summarising the availability of cycling infrastructure, attitudes of drivers etc. The intro gives the impression that USA is a biking heaven – that's OK for the intro, but you should get readers down to earth before going into details, as I've understood that's not quite the complete picture. –LPfi (talk) 07:56, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  There is some jargon adding to the lively style but making it hard for people like me (second language speaker). What is "a quick RSVP", what is "Hang back and let them do whatever"? I also think some things should be explained more thoroughly; e.g. the article says you should keep away from the door zone of parked cars, but I'd be afraid of getting under the next bus or truck from behind. Can you trust other traffic to keep clear? What happens if you use your right to take a lane, will the drivers behind you be happy to slow down?

  The urban cycling images (Black Canyon Trail, Old Colony Nature Pathway, Colchester Causeway) do not look urban to me. I assume the point is that there are nice trails near cities, but urban cycling to me is getting around the cities themselves. Can you reach your hostel by safe routes? Should the trails go to Trails, perhaps split up into long distance trails and day trip trails in or close to cities.

  The quoted fee of $220 for taking your bike across the country is quite hefty. I would rather hire locally, or buy one at the destination. How widely are those options available? What about cheap used bikes?

  –LPfi (talk) 08:27, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  My experience of the U.S. is that suburban or rural cycling is the best, while due to the prevalence of cars and jam-packed interstate routes, urban cycling is a nightmare. Of all the American cities I've known, I'm not aware of one that would be an enjoyable place to cycle. In Europe, where cycle lanes often take priority over automobile lanes, urban cycling is probably more enjoyable.

  Your second paragraph is why I wouldn't cycle in urban areas: most roads have cycling routes because the law mandates it or for PR, but they're virtually unusable in fact. Instead, upscale suburban areas have bike trails in their exurbs, which are perfect cycling destinations. So this should be clarified in the article, in my opinion.

  As mentioned above, obviously minorities should take caution. Suburbs should be safe for everyone, but urban areas and rural areas would be of more concern. Common sense should be able to guide this, though.

  Additionally many roads in my local area don't have enough crosswalks, and people without cars (most of whom are minorities) run a high risk of not being spotted crossing a street at night, whether they're pedestrians or cyclists. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 19:01, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Needs work. Except issues already mentioned, selection of destinations is far too narrow, and the article does not say a lot about cycling in the country as a whole. There is potential to create elaborate articles on states and regions, such as cycling in Colorado or cycling in California. /Yvwv (talk) 12:20, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for your time reviewing and commenting everyone! I know you've got other things you'd rather be working on, so it means a lot to me. I've made a few quick updates to the article based on your feedback. It was especially helpful to hear from ESL readers, I forget that English is not everyone's native tongue. Sounds like I should add an understand section, with more realistic descriptions of what cycling in various American situations is like as a whole. Fair point. Maybe there's something to having sections for both long and short distance trails. Or maybe making the idea that "these are the good trails near this city" more clear that somehow. Not sure I agree that the "selection of destinations is far too narrow", it almost feels like there are too many options as is. I think there is enough content to create additional Cycling in California type articles, but I'm not going to do it lol. ButteBag (talk) 18:53, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks.

  There are plenty of suggested destinations, but they don't cover all the country, and a biker going to an area not covered should get the general advice they need, or enough for them to choose whether to forget about going by bike this time, try to find more information elsewhere or plan for biking anyway. I assume there may be variations even on local level, so you cannot cover all of it, but you probably have some touch on what to expect from places where you haven't been and heard nothing about. So, yes, I think an Understand would be good.

  –LPfi (talk) 20:15, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. One other thing I've noticed is the lack of detail about helmet laws. For someone like me who comes from a place where helmets are mandatory by law, whether it's mandatory or not doesn't really bother me (I always wore one in Oslo, even though I knew I might have been judged), but for some others who may be used to cycling in a country with no legal restrictions, we should elaborate more. Looking at w:Bicycle helmet laws by country, it seems some states mandate the use of helmets for children while there are few to no restrictions in others. I realise that having a table for all 50 states + 5 organized territories is going to be very long, but surely we can do better than what currently stands. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 01:26, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  w:Bicycle helmets in the United States has a good table, though we probably shouldn't copy the table as is. Would it be okay to make an exception to the Wikivoyage:Links to Wikipedia policy in this regard? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:05, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The table is collapsed, so not obvious, and the rest of the article is quite thin. Perhaps it suffices to say that helmets are mandatory for children (up to 12–18) in many states or counties (is that the relevant level?), mostly voluntary for adults. Readers should then check for themselves. Articles about individual states could have the info in their By bike sections, where a paragraph should be enough even in complicated cases. –LPfi (talk) 21:35, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Slush? Nominated 10 months ago with zero support votes and only minor improvements. /Yvwv (talk) 23:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe best to wait a couple of weeks for some input from ButteBag. And if it's slushed it can be renominated later if the issues have been fixed. Ypsilon (talk) 16:05, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In the footsteps of explorers[edit]

Place: In the footsteps of explorers Blurb: From prehistoric migrations out of Africa to space flight, humans have always been explorers. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: {{{time}}} Nominated by: User:Pashley Comment: It has taken quite a lot of work by several people, but this article is now rather good, & I think pretty much complete.

Nomination

• Support as nominator. Pashley (talk) 01:34, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. The scope of the topic is too generalized, and it mainly serves as a list of itineraries. The selection of described individual explorers and journeys is very arbitrary. /Yvwv (talk) 01:38, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? No positive feedback for a month. /Yvwv (talk) 08:56, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I'm unsure about this. It's definitely a valid article and as such featurable, but like Yvwv said it has a huge scope, somewhat like visual arts. Basically it would be a good idea to create new articles for the sections/explorers that have a couple of POIs but I'm afraid those might become quite short unless someone volunteers to write more about those explorers... --Ypsilon (talk) 05:25, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Antarctic Peninsula[edit]

Place: Antarctic Peninsula Blurb: Cruise visits have resumed, and the Peninsula is the most scenic part of Antarctica, teeming with wildlife, and with heritage of the whaling era. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Nov 2023, start of the first post-covid cruise season. Nominated by: Grahamsands (talk) 20:50, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We've never had an Antarctic dotm, though all that continent's pages are in good shape, and tours have resumed post-covid. This would push out FTT "Churches in Antarctica" but is of far wider traveller interest.

Nomination

• Needs work – one, an article can never fully be ineligible for a feature (unless the destination is really unsafe), so Churches in Antarctica won't ever be pushed back solely due to it being an armchair traveller article; two, Antarctic Peninsula#Bases and points of interest is an absolute mess, but if it is going to stay that way, many markers needs coordinates; three, this one's minor, but this is still too off the beaten path to be considered a DotM. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 21:15, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I should also point out that this won't be our first Antarctic feature (as per your comment), as South Pole has already been featured. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:38, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Needs work. Antarctica has been reorganised several times in the last years, and I think many of the articles, including this, still show that some of the content has been broken out from somewhere and just slightly reworded to fit. The list replacing Cities and Other destinations should be broken up, separating destinations that are covered in other articles and destinations covered here. That would get rid of the 22-bullet list, which includes an archipelago with a region article as well as an individual wreck. –LPfi (talk) 08:58, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Definitely not DotM, but maybe OtBP. Pashley (talk) 10:20, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @Pashley: About time to recategorise as an OtBP? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:35, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, or slush it since several people above say it needs work. Pashley (talk) 11:56, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't slush the article atm given it's only been 2 days since the article was nominated, but I have recategorised it as an OtBP. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:02, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It might be possible to get the article up to guide with some hours' work. Region articles don't need to be complete to get to guide, but their listings and layout should closely match the manual of style, and all the standard sections should have well-developed prose. All or most needed info might be there, just in need of reorganising and rewriting. –LPfi (talk) 12:55, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is a rural area article, though, so the requirements are less lax. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is it? The template calls it a region article, and there are city and region articles breadcrumbed to it. –LPfi (talk) 14:00, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it was written like one, with a structure similar to Streymoy – I've recategorised it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 21:31, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Slush? no support for almost a month; I think this can be SNOW closed. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:29, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tezpur[edit]

Place: Tezpur Blurb: The largest city on the Brahmaputra's northern bank has many historic sites from the Ahom kingdom. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: November to March for weather. Not sure about events; Maybe Diwali (November)? Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 15:00, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: India has been under-featured. Many articles on India have improved lately, and we just ran Cooch Behar. We could make it customary to run a South Asian article for northern winter.

Nomination

• Needs work surely there's more than one place to drink in Tezpur. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:29, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Slush? no improvements since. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:28, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

---

Outcome: slushed. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:55, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Trabzon[edit]

Place: Trabzon Blurb: With an ancient Greek heritage, Trabzon was an empire in its own right during the Middle Ages. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Northern summer, as climate is cooler than the rest of Turkey. June for Kadirga Festival, or August for Sultan Murat Festival. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 13:10, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Turkey is very under-featured. Not sure whether Trabzon would weigh in for DoTM.

Nomination

• Comment. This is one of the greatest articles of Turkish locations, thanks to the hard work by many of our contributors, first and foremost User:NeoRetro. However, it needs some tidying up: some of the information pertains to the region as a whole, not only to the city, and as for the listed attractions, the article currently works as a semi-rural area, with many sites in the surrounding area lumped in together with those in the city itself, including some which should be moved to the places we have articles for. However, most are visited as day-trips from Trabzon, so I'm not sure how big a problem this presents. Vidimian (talk) 15:00, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• I’d lean DOTM on this Tai123.123 (talk) 20:45, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Needs work per Vidimian. For dotm/otbp, I'd generally say dotm, but as we have a lot more otbp slots available, I wouldn't mind it being an otbp. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:18, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: The article has been improved a lot since nomination and the first votes, and should be re-evaluated. /Yvwv (talk) 16:05, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment: generally looks good, but for me (who doesn't know anything about the area) it's a little overwhelming. Still seems like some of this info should be lifted up to region level pages. See section PoI could use some trimming and better descriptions. Thanks! ButteBag (talk) 17:04, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: zero support !votes for over 10 months – slush? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 00:51, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: This is a fairly long article that will take me a while to read through. Should Trabzon be districted? I will say that it strikes me as absurd to consider a city of 1 million for OtBP, and that this nomination should be moved to the DotM section. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:06, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Slush? as of tomorrow, this nomination would have been sitting here for a year with zero support !votes. Unless it's significantly improved, I guess it'll just be sitting here, crying for it to be slushed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:55, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Slush - The Eat, Drink and Sleep listings look so thin, and there are rather few of them if we're talking about a city of several hundred thousand inhabitants, that one may wonder if the article even should have guide status. On the other hand See is very long, also with many listings with little information, and unusually formatted with green listings for park and "around" for a great number of the attractions. Ypsilon (talk) 15:29, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Minneapolis[edit]

Place: Minneapolis Blurb: Set among many lakes, the third largest city in the Midwest has a diverse cultural and sports scene with something for everyone (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Usable but please read the comment (must be guide or above). Time to feature: May-Oct Nominated by: Ypsilon (talk) 20:12, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Something from outside Europe for a DotM slot next summer? Minnesota is one of the U.S. states we've never featured anything from. Yes, Minneapolis only has usable status, but as a rule of thumb districtified cities tend to have enough information for guide status and all districts are usable. The article needs to be cleaned up (the number of bullet points reminds me of the Stockholm article before it was featured), links need to be checked, closed businesses deleted (also for the districts) and so on - what I pointed out in Talk:Minneapolis#Guide_and_DotM? in 2019. Will help out with this before the article is featured if necessary.

Nomination

• Needs some work per comment. Ypsilon (talk) 20:12, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• I think it's best to get an article up to guide status before nominating it. No-one should support featuring a usable article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:26, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose, speedy slush as we did with Cycling in the United States. Articles must be guide or star. --12:56, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

I concur. The right way to do it is to re-categorize the article first, and then nominate. That said, the article looks good. /Yvwv (talk) 13:01, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Iquitos[edit]

Place: Iquitos Blurb: A metropolis in the Peruvian Amazon, with great opportunities for boat safaris. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: While the dry season (April-Sept) is more comfortable, the wet season (Oct-March) is more appealing for wildlife watching. We are short on features for northern winter, and we usually feature Latin American cities for carnival season. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 01:23, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We haven't too many South American candidates, and this is a rather unusual city. Though its size, it can be considered off the beaten path for the difficulty to get there.

Nomination

• Close-ish: Top half of the article is excellent! See needs some coords and a subhead or two. I don't understand the "Travelling by yourself" section. Maybe delete or move to a new "nearby" section. "Jungle tours and ecolodges" imho should be split into "Do" and "Sleep" sections? Or merged into the "Jungle lodges" under sleep. "Party and nightlife" should go in Drink. "Renting a vehicle" should go in Get around? The stuff about eating endangered animals, drinking Ayahuasca, etc should probably go in a respect/stay safe/stay healthy section. Sleep needs a few coords. This is a really good one that could be great with a little love. ButteBag (talk) 19:07, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I've schueduled this for June 2023, though if a lack of consensus emerges, we may have to feature Longyearbyen instead. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:15, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Not ready, and is it even properly a guide? I think it isn't, considering the lack of addresses in "Eat" and the lack of any listing in "Drink." Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:15, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @Ikan Kekek: had a full read through (and not just a skim read) and agree that this does not fulfill the criteria for guide per the Wikivoyage:City article status. Should this be speedily slushed? Longyearbyen can replace its slot. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:25, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to nominate articles of higher quality. We have several months until June, in any case. /Yvwv (talk) 12:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think it should be slushed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:11, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Liepāja[edit]

Place: Liepāja Blurb: Latvia's third largest city has beautiful wooden buildings, Soviet military installations, and a beautiful sandy beach. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Northern summer for weather. Not sure about events. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 11:03, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Eastern Europe hasn't been featured a lot. Russia and Ukraine will be off limits for some time, but the Baltic states seem unlikely to be affected by the ongoing war; also decently safe, cheap, and accessible. The article needs a climate graph, and a more inspiring intro. We might get an overload of destinations for northern summer; hopefully we can scout out more places for other seasons.

Nomination

• Needs work. Few eat, drink, and sleep listings have descriptions that is not to mention the lede and understand is rather short. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:18, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Close: Needs a real lede, and the eat and drink listings should be blown out. Three maps is maybe too many for me, but that's subjective. I would like to see a few more good images. But overall this is extremely good! ButteBag (talk) 19:32, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oia (Greece)[edit]

Place: Oia Blurb: One of Santorini's most iconic towns, famous for its volcanic cliffs. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Any, though July and August might be too hot Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 11:39, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Greece and the Eastern Mediterranean are under-featured. While Oia has many visitors for an "off the beaten path" destination, it is so small that the article can easily give a complete description of the town.

Nomination

• Needs work. Many listings are devoid of coordinates. As I mentioned in the nomination above, this article is not otbp-standard; I will make it once I get some time, though – before the slot that's taken up by Navarre (Florida). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 05:01, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy slush? I was planning to work on Oia this weekend, until I saw the edit history – large parts of the article were written by various IPs, all likely the same person as 193.86.240.59 – and 193.86.240.59 is believed to be ArticCynda block-evading (see Talk:Monolithos). @Ikan Kekek, Ground Zero, Yvwv:, a penny for your thoughts? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:12, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We were getting short on candidates, but as we got an inflow of them, Oia is not necessary to keep. /Yvwv (talk) 08:50, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Salzburg[edit]

Place: Salzburg Blurb: Mozart's hometown, the setting of The Sound of Music, and the gateway to the Austrian Alps. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Spring or summer. Not sure whether any specific event is worth to mention. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 15:58, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We have had very few Austrian features, and no scheduled Germanophone/Central European destinations. Needs a climate graph, safety info, and coordinates for some venues.

Nomination

• Needs work. Many listings don't have coordinates. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:34, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Most also lack lastedit, and those that have it are mostly from 2018–2019. I assume listings without coords are from before when we started adding coords systematically. Thus, this article haven't been updated since COVID-19 hit and needs a thorough check. If many listings were lost because of it, there is quite some work to replace them. Most listings now seem to have good descriptions, but after owner changes they may not apply. –LPfi (talk) 10:02, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Slush? No improvements since. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:40, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Unless somebody steps forward. –LPfi (talk) 10:59, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Outcome: slushed. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:00, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kent (Ohio)[edit]

Place: Kent Blurb: An Ohio college town known for its parks and festivals. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Northern summer for weather. April/May for remembrance of the Kent State massacre. June/July for festivals. March/April 2024 for total solar eclipse. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 12:45, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: While the United States have been well-featured, we have had few features from the Midwest, and none yet from Ohio.

Nomination

Needs a little bit of work, though hopefully not much. A few points:

• The "By plane" section violates wv:airports. While it isn't the blatant kind of violation like what we encountered in the Nigeria Expedition where there'd be seven unrelated airports, there is still no information on how to get from the airports to Kent
• Some eat and drink listings need more contact details, if it can be found.
• Holiday Inn Express Hotel & Suites seems to be outside Kent. If it's covered in another article, should it be removed?

Otherwise, it is mostly looking good, but the "By plane" section needs to be fixed before a feature. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 13:07, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Well formatted, a few subheads even have some supporting copy before the POIs! Just a few are missing coords. I would move any pois outside the dynamic map to whatever article they belong in. I would also remove the airport section, but probably no one agrees with me. Lose the "local" subhead under go next, doesn't add anything. ButteBag (talk) 19:17, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

---

Slush? Still no progress since July 4. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 02:32, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Madrid[edit]

Place: Madrid Blurb: The capital of Spain, and once its global empire, is a diverse destination with two world-class football clubs, fine dining, and bustling nightlife. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Spring and autumn for weather. February for Carnival... though big events happen year around. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 13:31, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Spain is one of Europe's most visited countries, but has had very few features. This article was successfully districtified, and there is not much to add.

Nomination

• Comment There really shouldn't be any see listings in Madrid#See. Will do a detailed analysis of the article soon. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Okay, so ignoring the listings issue, I'm going to say this needs work. First of all, I find the map problematic. It doesn't have a static map, but I'm okay with that, but the dynamic district map relies on Wikidata IDs, and I think we all know that these can become victims of disappearing mapshapes; in this case, Madrid/Salamanca has already become one. I don't have much time in the near future to make such a detailed map for a city like Madrid (I can make a cheap one, but the dynamic map that relies on Wikidata IDs would be better in that case). Secondly, I noticed many listings were not in their respective districts, at least per the mapshapes. I haven't been to Madrid yet (though I plan to visit Madrid in 2025), so I don't really have much to comment on the content, but until this is fixed, this needs work. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:59, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Slush? No improvements have been made since the nomination. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 02:30, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yellowstone National Park[edit]

Place: Yellowstone National Park Blurb: Since 1872, the world's first national park preserves geysers, hotsprings, and an amazing wildlife. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Probably northern summer or autumn. We missed the 150th anniversary, but people don't go to Yellowstone for public events anyway. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 13:27, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We don't have too many North American destinations or national parks coming up. Few park articles are as detailed as this one.

Nomination

• Oppose for the same reason why this star nom was slushed. It's ridiculously long and violates Wikivoyage:Avoid long lists. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 00:03, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Slush? No improvements have been made since the star nomination was slushed (and since this was nominated). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kingston (Jamaica)[edit]

Place: Kingston Blurb: Jamaica's capital is the birthplace of reggae, and a great place to party. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Northern winter. Not sure about events. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 16:30, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We have had zero Caribbean DoTMs, and a deficit of features for northern winter. Needs a climate graph, a more inspiring intro, and more nightlife venues.

Nomination

• Comment From eat onwards, the article tends to become a little bit drab. May support if someone takes the initiative of making the eat section a bit more colourful. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:24, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Needs more work. If the blurb is going to call it the birthplace of reggae and a great place to party, we need at least one reggae club in there! The Stay Safe section is also a bit odd, with "ensure a pleasant experience" and "signing their death warrant" back to back. Johannesburg#Stay safe is a good example of actually useful advice for a dangerous city. Jpatokal (talk) 06:20, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? Negative reviews and issues unresolved for a month. Are there any other worthy Caribbean articles? /Yvwv (talk) 15:49, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Not yet In several places paragraphs appear to have unconnected sentences: Stay Safe has already been mentionned above, but I found this elsewhere, eg: in Understand - the second para links two completely different ideas. Route Taxis needs more explanation. Go Next is missing details for the places that don't have blue links. There have not been enough post-2020 edits to have confidence that it reflects all the changes as a result of Covid. AlasdairW (talk) 20:41, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gaborone[edit]

Place: Gaborone Blurb: Botswana's capital is just a few decades old, already established as the gateway to this friendly county. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: March-May or Aug-Oct, weather-wise. Not sure about public events. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 03:20, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We have had few African features, and none from Botswana. This article seems to be up to date.

Nomination

• Support, whenever it's halfway reasonable to travel. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:46, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Support per Ikan. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:28, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I did not take the time to fully look at the article earlier, but now I have so I'm going to say it needs work. Some issues:

• Understand is way too short.
• The "Modern architecture" section has no description nor addresses
• The same with the other "See" listings
• The same goes with the other sections

That's just a start. So until this is fixed, I'm going to oppose a feature. However, in saying that, I'd like to see this being featured one day, perhaps maybe after these have been fixed. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:47, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Scheduled for September, for good safari weather and Botswana Day on 30 September. Scheduling was made before the comment above, and can always be reconsidered. /Yvwv (talk) 22:51, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

On hold due to remaining issues. /Yvwv (talk) 10:28, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? The article has unaddressed issues some months past nomination. /Yvwv (talk) 13:25, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know to be fair. I'd love to see an article from Botswana be featured (as outside ZA, Southern Africa has had relatively few features), but at the same time, it needs some work. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:03, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - the current page banner is dreadful and should be replaced. Was just looking at the page and noticed it was nominated.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:26, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Slush? This article has quietly been sitting here since Jan with all issues unimproved so far. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:32, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Australian cuisine[edit]

Place: Australian cuisine Blurb: While Australia isn't really known for its cuisine, Australian cuisine is a multicultural cuisine incorporating many Indigenous ingredients and perhaps one of the sweetest cuisines. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Jan or Feb 2023 – around the time where there's good produce but anytime during the start of southern summer will also work. Nominated by: SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:10, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: As you can probably see, it's a fairly new article having only been created recently. That being said, it does need some work on its beverages section. Additionally I've tried not to add a list of ingredients like in American cuisine, since it looks awfully encyclopedic and I don't think many will read it. That being said, I think the article could also cover a bit about etiquette, which while I can do, I'm not really sure how to explain it. The drinks section could also do better with a bit of work too, especially given Australia's large coffee culture, but can do that soon. Also before it gets lost in my banner collection, here's, a banner that I cropped.

Nomination

• Comment: I think it needs a lot of work. Most sections don't look complete. The Meat section should mention that nearly all beef (and meat in general) is grass fed, not grain fed like it is in so many other countries of the world. Australia is also renowned internationally for its Black Angus beef and its marbled texture. There should also be a point on how experimental Australians are with meat. To what extent is game and offal eaten, for instance. The Fruit and Vegetable section briefly talks about one type of apple, no other kind of fruit and nothing about veggies. There should at least be a mention of Pink Lady apples and Calypso mangoes. The dietary requirements only touches on kosher, halal, vegetarianism and veganism. I think gluten free and nut allergies also need to be covered as a minimum. Iconic Australia ice creams like Paddle Pop, Golden Gaytime and Drumstick are all missing as are Twisties. Regarding seafood, Australia is known for its southern bluefin tuna and salmon (particularly Tasmania). There is no information on burgers which are more popular than e.g. Mexican-American, and no information on unique Australian twists on burgers like adding beetroot. It will come as a surprise to many foreign visitors the first time they order a burger in Australia. The takeaway section should have a sentence on Chinese takeaway plastic containers/boxes, which is different to the cardboard cartons you may find overseas. There's no mention of the great Australian barbecue nor anything on what kind of food is eaten on Christmas, the most important cultural event and festival of the year. Also missing Australian specific chains like Oporto and Red Rooster (see Chinese cuisine for comparison) and types of food establishments like the milk bar. I'll stop rambling now but I believe there is still a lot to do. Gizza ^(roam) 13:55, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Not yet As the Australian drawbridge has only just been lowered, I think we should wait a year to allow edits as a result of readers using the guide. I agree with DaGizza that there is much to do. Snacks are well covered, but I think there is work to do on meals. Is kangaroo meat farmed, or are wild kangaroo's hunted or culled? Are there standards for the welfare of farm animals? Do Australian hotels serve breakfast? What times do Austrialians usually eat meals - will the restauarant be full of locals or empty at 6:30pm? What kind of food can be found in supermarkets - ready meals, hot food or just raw ingredients? AlasdairW (talk) 23:21, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• I'd realised I as the nominator forgot to give my vote, but my vote is also needs work. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:46, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My comment as nominator still remains needs work, but I feel skeptical of the "fruit and veg" section or an ingredients section itself. I'm making this judgment based on American_cuisine#Ingredients which is pretty much a blob of super long user unfriendly text and it's mostly not travel related. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:08, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The issue with the American cuisine section is that it lists nearly everything that's eaten by Americans. My suggestions were more towards mentioning varieties of fruit and veg which are unique or originated in Australia. Gizza ^(roam) 06:40, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That makes sense and it is more doable, user friendly and travel related. We could also list some important food festivals too. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:58, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Scheduled provisionally for February/March 2023. The article has improved, and can probably get good enough for next year. / 10:43, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Needs work. The blurb, the intro and the article itself all need work: not a single mention of Mod Oz food (!), and the characterizations as "sweetest" (what?) and "not be the greatest culinary destination" are offputting. Also, I'm sorry to say, but Indigeous ingredients are basically non-existent. Jpatokal (talk) 03:42, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

On hold due to remaining issues. /Yvwv (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

---

Slush? I don't think I have the knowledge or capability to make this FTT-worthy (namely, I honestly don't know how to fill the "Fruit and vegetables" section) so I won't be able to fix some of the remaining issues raised. @DaGizza, Jpatokal: What do you think? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:30, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've given it a once-over, but I still think it needs more work. Jpatokal (talk) 07:46, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

On hold until ready to feature. /Yvwv (talk) 08:51, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Indianapolis[edit]

Place: Destination Blurb: The Racing Capital of the World hosts Indy 500 in May, and is also a great place for business meetings and conventions. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Terrible during northern winter, but there are lots of indoor venues. Preferrably May 2023 for Indy 500. Possibly April 2024 for solar eclipse. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 12:30, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We haven't had too many articles on the Midwest, and not many destinations related to racing or other spectator sports. Needs a history section, and general advice for the Eat & Drink sections.

Nomination

• Agreed that the best time to be on the main page is around the Indy 500, i.e. May 2023. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:48, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Scheduled for May 2023. Please evaluate the article. /Yvwv (talk) 10:59, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. There's too much information in this article, which makes me think this city is probably large enough to be divided into districts. In that case, there's probably work to be done that would precede a DOTM nomination. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 14:20, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. Much of this article violates Wikivoyage:Avoid long lists. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 22:05, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Slush? --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 00:22, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Agree. +1 for slushing. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 04:35, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cycling in the United States[edit]

Place: Cycling in the United States Blurb: With greatly expanded infrastructure since the onset of COVID, the most difficult part of cycling in America is deciding where to go. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: outline (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Year round Nominated by: ButteBag (talk) 23 September 2022 (UTC) Comment: outline status remains because I'm not confident enough to update article statuses. It's worth a look.

Nomination

• I have upgraded it to usable, but maybe you could use the article talk page and a link on Wikivoyage:Requests for comment to see if it has reached Guide, before it is discussed here in detail. AlasdairW (talk) 15:26, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, that's the way to do it. Thanks @AlasdairW! ButteBag (talk) 15:54, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose, speedy slush. Articles must be guide or star. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 01:30, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Agreed. Who wants to slush it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:35, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Freetown[edit]

Place: Freetown Blurb: Sierra Leone's capital is a fast-developing city with some of Africa's finest beaches. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: December to April to avoid rain. Possibly March for Film Festival and Ballanta Music Festival. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 10:58, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Africa is severely under-featured. This article has been considered for featuring for a while, and has the essentials.

Nomination

• Close – I'd love to see this featured, and I agree that outside South Africa, Africa is severely underrepresented. Some issues tho:

• There are two national parks on the static map, but there is no mention about them in the article. Maybe I'm nitpicky about this as someone who's into the concepts of metro national parks
• Many listings are missing contact info.
• There are no buy listings.
• Many of the beach listings have just the beach name and coords with nothing else

Otherwise, it looks good to go. Once they're fixed, I'll support. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:32, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Slush? this article has been quietly sitting here since March. Should we slush this for now and renominate this once we feel the quality has improved? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:45, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Planning your flight[edit]

Place: Planning your flight Blurb: Flying presents the traveller with many choices: airline, flight, cabin class, and sometimes a specific seat. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Any. Possibly northern spring, before the global high season for tourist flights. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 03:29, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply] Comment: With many of the world's flights on hold for nearly two years, this is a good time to feature the basics. We could feature the flight articles one by one.

Nomination

• Close Some brushups needed, but otherwise looks good. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:45, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Slush? This nomination has quietly been sitting here since November and hasn't received a lot of support since. I would slush this for now and then renominate this if the article has improved. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:44, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Las Vegas[edit]

Place: Las Vegas Blurb: Sin City, the uncrowned capital of gambling, offers all kinds of entertainment year round. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Events are always ongoing. Spring or fall have the best weather. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 13:18, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Slushed back in 2009, but has improved a lot. Can be featured anytime when we do not have too many North American articles.

Nomination

Comment: Sorry for the lack of geographic diversity, with a fourth DoTM candidate from the American Sun Belt. They all have international appeal to be featured, though. IMO we should run the best and most relevant US article in March 2022, and the next one for fall 2022. /Yvwv (talk) 16:27, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Yvwv: we do have around three Australian destinations featured next year + this December, so don't think it's a huge problem. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:59, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? No supports or opposes, but this nomination has just been sitting here for months now. I would have normally given my opinion my now, but I'm very undecided on this – on one hand, most of the districts are in good-shape, but none of the districts have {{mapmask}}s which IMO, is key for a good city article (as the outer borders are now undefined). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:43, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the maps are a problem. The mess of literal points of interest crowded in the maps on the page in several districts makes the maps nearly indecipherable without zooming in. And then there's the probably more serious problem of the "Las Vegas districts" map in Las Vegas, which does not show the boundaries of 3 districts. The age-old solution when there's a need to focus in on a city's downtown is to put it in an inset. So there should really be two district maps - the one that's already there and a zoomed-out one that shows the boundaries of the larger outlying districts. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:55, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alternatively, I'd be happy to support if someone's willing to make an interactive dynamic map using geojson.io, which also gives the benefit of the district articles having mapmasks (using Renek78's convenient tool), but I've only visited Las Vegas twice and both times, I only visited the city en route to either Arizona or Utah. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:13, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've created a quick & dirty dynamic map and added it to the article. Maybe you have some ideas on how to improve it? "Wikivoyage Districtifier" does not work here because the official administrative boundaries are quite different from what we use so far.--Renek78 (talk) 09:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That map is an improvement, but I still think two maps, one an inset, are the best solution, considering that we want the page to be usable and printable as is, not only for people who have Internet access while they are using the map and are therefore able to look at it on a full page. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:34, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's certainly an improvement so thank you for making the map Renek78 :-).

@Ikan Kekek: But do we have anyone who can make an inset? If there is no guidance on how to make one (one that's in Wikivoyage-style), or if nobody can make them, then basically we're asking to do something that's impossible. I could do one IRL, but the way I would do it is completely against Wikivoyage style and I don't want to be unilaterally tampering our MoS. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:04, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure about other people but I use Wikivoyage within OsmAnd - a navigation app - while travelling. Printable maps wouldn't be a concern for me personally, but there are different user types of course.--Renek78 (talk) 16:45, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Since dynamic maps are being used in that article, the way to make an inset would seem to be to simply increase the zoom level for the inset and make sure its positioning is such that it shows the full extent of the smallest districts. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:23, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? Nothing has changed since July 30, and I doubt it will. For the most part, this nomination has quietly been sitting here for 10 months now. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:30, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wengen[edit]

Place: Wengen Blurb: With steep slopes and reliable snowfall, this picturesque car-free village nestled deep in the Bernese Alps of Switzerland is one of the world's top downhill skiing destinations. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Winter (Nov-Apr, roughly) Nominated by: Jpatokal (talk) 03:53, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Wengen is small, but it's a major tourist destination, so off the beaten path would be a stretch. Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime.

Nomination

Close, but needs some work:

• Why is there only one listing in "Drink"? There are others mentioned, but they should be in a listing format.
• Do the churches pass wv:worship? If so, they should be in a listing or markered at the bare minimum
• The buy section is missing contact details, coordinates and addresses

That's all from me right now. Will do the smaller fixes myself. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:05, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No personal experience re: the other bars mentioned, alas. The Lutheran Church is picturesque and has great views, so it's worth a mention, but I'd drop the rest. I've cleaned up the Buy section. Jpatokal (talk) 05:27, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Needs work. A ski resort should have a description of the lift system and spectator events. Could use a climate chart. /Yvwv (talk) 09:10, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wengen is not a standalone ski resort, but just a node in the rather vast Grindelwald-Wengen-Murren-First-Schilthorn ski area: you can ski down to Wengen, but getting up the slopes requires taking the train or gondola. This is mentioned in passing but I'll try to make this clearer. Jpatokal (talk) 12:50, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the region should have an article on its own, whether it is called Jungfrau Region or something else. /Yvwv (talk) 22:21, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? Zero support votes, and issues have not been addressed for four months. /Yvwv (talk) 21:04, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Go for it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 22:55, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yangshuo[edit]

Place: Yangshuo Blurb: Famous among backpackers for its scenic karst mountains. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: March-April and Oct-Nov seem to have the best weather. Possibly January for Lunar New Year. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 16:07, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We have no nominees from mainland China. Most venues need to be tagged. Re-categorized from OtBP to DoTM.

Nomination

• Comment: I wonder if this qualifies as OtBP given that this is a heavily touristed area. Anyway, I'll support this nomination if others do. It looks like the article hasn't been updated much recently, so I will try to do some work on it early next year. STW932 (talk) 17:53, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I also think this fits as a DOTM Tai123.123 (talk) 17:56, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Close some brushups needed + coordinates and dead links. I'm neutral on dotm or otbp. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:40, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment just want to say it was slushed in 2015, it seems it’s improved since then though. Tai123.123 (talk) 07:34, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing out. See /Slush pile#Yangshuo. /Yvwv (talk) 13:50, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? Still no progress on coordinates and dead links for six months now (and I don't feel comfortable adding coordinates myself because of China's strange coordinate system). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:37, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Suwon[edit]

Place: Suwon Blurb: South Korea's only walled city is within reach of Seoul's public transit, and a showcase of Korean history. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: May, June, September for weather. Not sure about public events. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 19:36, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Korea has been under-featured (and the northern part is likely to remain so). South Korean popular culture is in vogue, and the harsh pandemic rules have been dropped. The article needs some history information and a new district map.

Nomination

• There's a red-linked image of Suwon districts until I delete it. "Traffic" is usually not in "Understand". A walled city deserves a bit of historical background in that section. A lot of restaurant names are oddly given with initial lowercase letters. I don't have time to look through the rest with a fine-toothed comb, but this article clearly needs more editing and a more meaningful "Understand" section to be featured. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:27, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • I removed the Traffic section, which I think didn't add anything to what is in Get in. Much of Get in is confusing, possibly because of language issues. –LPfi (talk) 17:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: I remember The dog2 once mentioned that motels in South Korea was a place to have sex (I can't remember where though). Would the motels listed in Suwon#Motels pass the Wikivoyage:Sex tourism policy? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:07, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I can't remember where, but yes, in South Korea and Taiwan, motels are a place to have sex, just like the love hotels in Japan. But that said, if you stay a night and decide not to have sex, nobody will say you can't. The dog2 (talk) 03:19, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Found it; here it is. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:23, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

But would it pass our sex tourism policy though? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:24, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The sex tourism policy is about paying for sex, not going to a love motel with the person who is already your partner and having a discreet experience you choose to have as a couple. Houses of prostitution can't be listed, and we've discussed issues relating to gay spas (saunas?), I think they are, which are apparently really a euphemism for places where people pay to have sex with strangers of the same sex. That's not what love motels are, I think. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:21, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It that case, I don't think it will be a problem. Many people do engage a prostitute from outside and bring her to the love motel to have sex, but these love motels generally do not provide prostitution services. They are just providing a place for people to have sex. The dog2 (talk) 14:35, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If these motels are seedy and patrons are likely to run into prostitutes and their johns, we should warn people and could consider whether to list them or not, but if they're well-taken-care-of, clean and discreet and used by couples who are married or in relationships as well as people hiring sex workers, it's fine to list them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:58, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Not yet. Several sections need serious copy editing. The language issues often make the text hard to understand or even incomprehensible for somebody unfamiliar with the context. –LPfi (talk) 08:16, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Needs a lot of work Apart from the motels issue, there are a hell lot of issues with this article

• • Its understand section is ridiculously short
  • There is no information on how to get in to Suwon by car.
  • The tone and language used is a serious problem. It's dull, for the most part, incomprehensible, and has a hell lot of grammar issues.
  • Suwon#Supermarket (though the SH should be Supermarkets) is very bland
  • The drink section needs a cleanup.

Therefore, I oppose a feature of Suwon. However, if we do want a feature from SK, then maybe we should pick one of the Seoul districts at guide status. namely Seoul/Jongno and Seoul/Jung (the other two are missing coords). Yvwv, what do you think of that? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:47, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. /Yvwv (talk) 12:32, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sopron[edit]

Place: Sopron Blurb: Also known as Ödenburg, this Austro-Hungarian border city has roots back to the Roman Empire. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Weather is warm enough from May to September. Not sure about public events. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 20:29, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Hungary is appealing to visitors, but has had very few features. Many Hungarian town articles are nominally at Guide level (Érd, Hévíz, Budakeszi, Keszthely, Rétság, Zalaszentgrót, Zalalövő, etc), some of them hardly deserving the ranking. The Sopron article is one of the most extensive, with a good Understand section, as well as elaborate entries with coordinates for most venues.

Nomination

• Close, but not yet. On a quick read it looks a good article, but I did see a few things that need to be worked on:
  • There are about a dozen see listings with the marker 99 - maybe some of these should be moved to Go next and become a different type of listing.
  • Interesting knowing what the bus fares were in 2014, but today?
  • Several dead links.
  • Following the recent changes, there are now more supermarket listings than we normally allow.
  • Very few listings have edit dates, which implies that they are old and need to be checked.

Otherwise it looks promising. AlasdairW (talk) 21:59, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You have a point that the article has entries for too many historic buildings. Those that are not normally open to the public, and do not have any extraordinary importance (palace of a ruler, etc) do not need to be listed individually. /Yvwv (talk) 22:15, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Very close I don't have a problem with too many historic buildings, and as long as the churches listed pass wv:worship, it is fine. However, the we have the 99 problem, but that can be solved by creating a travel topic (such as Historic sites in Sopron), which also doesn't make this article long and unwieldy. However, the buy section does need a bit of work to reflect the recent wv:grocery addition and some of the eat/drink listings need descriptions, but otherwise the article has all the essentials for a feature. It seems a majority of the content here was added by Globetrotter19 in 2015, so it's reasonably up-to-date, but the dead links need a check but that can be done soon. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:26, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - excessive detail, and out of date. Do we want to feature an article that lists every supermarket and the services it offers? Do we want to feature an article that lists all of the restaurants available in 2014 and their prices? (Hungary has had 30% inflation in the 78 years since these were posted.) I think this article need a major overhaul and update before it is featured. I cleaned up a lot of formatting, spelling and punctuation errors, but this still needs more work. Ground Zero (talk) 15:32, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? no major improvements apart from GZ's formatting fixes. I was unaware that Hungary has had a 30 per cent inflation in the last 7-8 years, hence my "very close", but the 99 issue will remain unless someone who knows the city well enough will be able to fix the historic sites issue. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:47, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Shall we find another worthy guide-level Hungarian town? Hévíz? /Yvwv (talk) 11:33, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Blanes[edit]

Place: Blanes Blurb: A Catalonian fishing village with Roman heritage and beautiful beaches. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: May to October; chillier than most Mediterranean destinations. There seems to have been a fireworks festival in July. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 12:09, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: While Spain is one of the world's most visited countries, we have featured few Spanish destinations, and none as OtBP.

Nomination

Getting there, but not yet – some comments from me:

• Many listings, particularly in § Buy are missing contact info and have nothing but directions and coords.
• Many of the eat listings are missing addresses
• The drink section is missing many coordinates
• The sleep section has many listings, but with no description.
• Why is there an empty splurge section?

That's all from me. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:26, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? Unaddressed issues for three months. /Yvwv (talk) 23:20, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tagbilaran[edit]

Place: Tagbilaran Blurb: The capital and gateway of the beautiful Philippine island of Bohol. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: December to May are driest. Christmas is a big thing; festivals are also held in January, 1 May, and July. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 23:40, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: The Philippines are a large country with high tourist appeal, but no current nominees. We also need more OtBP for northern winter. Tagbilaran could be OtBP, as it is not among the country's most famous destinations, and mostly visited for transfer.

Nomination

close, but needs work. some feedback from me:

none of the eat, drink and sleep listing have coordinates

surely there's more than one place to drink in Tagbilaran.

many listings are missing descriptions

once that is resolved, i'll support. --shb2000 (talk) 05:51 1 april 2022 (utc)

Granted T is more a transit point than a destination in its own right. Still, I find it hard to consider it "off the beaten path"; the article says the port handled 4000 passengers a day pre-COVID.

Should another destination in Bohol province be featured instead? The main tourist area is Alona Beach on Panglao island. I'd say an effort to bring one of those up to Guide would be a better use of time than fixing T. Pashley (talk) 02:53, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Not yet per SHB2000. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 20:11, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? No work done for nearly three months. /Yvwv (talk) 23:12, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Go for it. If we'd like a feature from the Philippines, I'd say we should follow Pashley's suggestion. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:19, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Saas-Fee[edit]

Place: Saas-Fee Blurb: A quiet Swiss ski resort with many peaks above 4,000 metres, and snow well into summer. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: March to May; ski season comes late at this altitude. Summer can be pleasant for outdoor life too. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 12:15, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We have had few features from Switzerland, and few winter resorts.

Nomination

• Close but needs some work haven't fully looked at the article, but here's a few comments from me:

• The tourist offices need a description
• The capitalization needs a check
• From the #Drink section, Nightlife choices in the Saas valley are plenty but mostly limited to pubs and après-ski bars. If that's the case, then why is only one bar listed?

--SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? No improvement since nomination, and we have another Swiss mountain town nominated for DoTM. /Yvwv (talk) 16:44, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to. I guess we don't need two Swiss towns. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:16, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ta'if[edit]

Place: Ta'if Blurb: Ta'if is known as the "best summer destination" in Saudi Arabia as well as the "City of Roses". The city is a very popular tourist destination among Saudis, especially during the summers. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: July-August Nominated by: Roovinn (talk) 13:24, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: I've taken a huge interest in Saudi Arabia lately and I've taken it upon myself to edit articles on the country. Ta'if is not exactly a household word, but I feel that this is a perfect destination to promote on this site. There's so much to see and do in the city, and it offers attractions that you wouldn't normally see in other parts of Saudi Arabia. Underrated destination if you ask me.

Nomination

• Support as nominator. If the article needs more work, we can nominate it at another time. Roovinn (talk) 13:27, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Very close, the guide looks good to me, but the few things that can be improved are- all phone numbers must be uniformly written in +966 XXX XXXX... also in the budget part of the eat section, there is no need to make two listings for the same place, an exception can be made if there is significant difference between the two which must be clearly specified in the content of the listings. Some sections can be expanded like the buy section by adding listings for local markets etc. Optionally, a route box at the end of the guide can also be added. Apart from these, everything looks good to me. These are some minor glitches and can be fixed easily. 2006nishan178713^t@lk 13:42, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Roovinn, if this destination is an 'Underrated destination' and it 'is not exactly a household word' then it could be featured as OtBP 2006nishan178713^t@lk 13:46, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Also consider adding a 'Connect' section specifying telecom operators in the city and other ways to connect with the world. 2006nishan178713^t@lk 13:51, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @2006nishan178713 Done and implemented, to the best of my abilities. Thank you for your suggestions! Phone numbers I'll tweak later. Roovinn (talk) 14:08, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Nice work, lets see what others think. I'll put my support once the phone number issue is fixed and no other issue catches my eyes. :) 2006nishan178713^t@lk 14:27, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Isn't there a rule stating that there needs to be at least two years between features from the same general region, as both mecca and taif are in Hejaz we can only have one go up this year. No longer an issue due to slushing of Mecca. Tai123.123 (talk) 17:09, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Tai123.123, that's true. We can keep the Ta'if nomination open for a certain period of time and then we can choose any one of it which is more accurately written. 2006nishan178713^t@lk 17:50, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Not voting for now Have the same concern as Tai123.123. Anyway, my thoughts:

• The visa requirement section is not necessary as duplication can cause confusion
• What happened to the addresses? Nearly all of them are missing
• Some of the listings need a description

So excluding Tai123's concern which I also have, I'm going to say close. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:41, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Close. Needs a more inspiring intro, a climate graph, and a general description for the Do, Buy and Eat sections. /Yvwv (talk) 03:40, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? The article has unaddressed issues some months past nomination. If they are fixed, we can run the article soon again to feature for mid-2023. /Yvwv (talk) 10:35, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support slushing – unfortunately not a single edit since the nomination (excluding a spelling and a lint fix). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:54, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I made an editing pass & I think improved some things. However I have not been there in about 40 years, so I'm not the right person to ensure it is up-to-date. I do not object to slushing it for now, but Roovin is correct; this is an underrated destination & well worth featuring at some point. Pashley (talk) 02:32, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Arusha[edit]

Place: Arusha Blurb: A city at the foot of Mount Kilimanjaro is the gateway to many of Tanzania's safari parks. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: May to October for weather. Not sure about public events. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 20:45, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: Africa deserves more features. Arusha is a fairly large city, but not a famous destination in its own right, and more often visited as a base for safaris. Slushed in 2013.

Nomination

Wasn't Arusha slushed a couple of times? (Having checked) Yes, in 2013 and 2010. And a quick glance shows that some safari operators are still listed under P.O. boxes or lack an address at all, so it's not ready for a feature yet. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:55, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Needs (alot of) work The lead is short and should be improved. There is a lack of coords for most eat and sleep listing. Two see listings is too little for a city of the size, a quick google search makes me think that the "w:Arusha Declaration Monument" and the "Arusha National Natural History Museum" should be added. Also lack of addresses like Ikan Kekek pointed out above. —The preceding comment was added by Tai123.123 (talk • contribs) 04:47, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Not yet. In addition to what has been stated above, the Drink section has information but lacks listings and the destinations in "Go next" lack descriptions. Many of the listings may also be closed since they lack URL links so the article could be very out-of-date. Even Do and Buy have the potential to be expanded. A city of 400,000 likely has more than two non-safari activities and two markets (excluding malls). Gizza ^(roam) 05:49, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• No, and this would fit more into the new "informative" status – when I first saw this nomination in its current status, it was an absolute joke to me. Many of the listings are in a state of despair on top of the issues that Gizza, Ikan and Tai brought up. To Yvwv, I understand you want to feature more destinations from underrepresented parts of the world, but at the same time, but if it doesn't fulfill the criteria, it can't be featured. Also, I disagree that Arusha is "off the beaten path". It is far more significant than Arches NP which we decided would be a dotm. So no, I oppose featuring this, and I'm not going to spend my time on working on an article that is in a state of despair just so we can get more features from underrepresented parts of the world. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:58, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? Due to negative feedback, we could slush this nomination early. /Yvwv (talk) 22:38, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead as you wish. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:49, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mecca[edit]

Place: Mecca Blurb: Mecca has a rich place in human history. There's so much to explore and learn about the holiest site in Islam. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: March-September Nominated by: Roovinn (talk) 15:55, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: I've taken a huge interest in Saudi Arabia lately and I've taken it upon myself to edit articles on the country. If I am to be honest, Saudi Arabia is an underrated destination. I understand that not many people can to travel to Mecca because of their religious affiliations (I know I fit in that category), but people should at least be aware of what all the city and Saudi Arabia are about and what they have to offer to the interested reader/traveller.

Nomination

• It's a nice article. A little bit of work needs to be done, such as a description for some of the do and sleep listings, some addresses. But I wouldn't want to feature it because has anyone from voy actually visited Mecca to confirm everything? If that's a yes, I would be happy to see it go on the main page, but thanks for improving that article :-) --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:11, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also the drink section needs some work per Tai123.123 as well. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:29, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Needs Work I agree with SHB that someone who's visited Mecca should review it before a feature. There could be more sleep and eat listings for one of the most visited cities in the world, also there is only drink listing but the descrirption says there are numerous cafes. Tai123.123 (talk) 01:25, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Would it be an alternative to make Hajj a featured travel topic? That article is currently rated Usable, but looks to me like it could be promoted to Guide. Pashley (talk) 01:47, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Provided that a majority of the world's population is prohibited from visiting Mecca, should it be OtbP? /Yvwv (talk) 10:10, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know to be fair. It's a well known destination, but similar to #Punta Arenas, it's not easy to get to, and with Mecca, impossible. Since that's the case, I'm leaning towards OtBP. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:19, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If it's more appropriate for Off the Beaten Path, that would be fine as well. Roovinn (talk) 11:49, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support for OtBP. My only concern would be that none of the most recent contributors have been there, so we're relying on internet info.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:03, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Can you imagine a path more beaten than the one leading here? You can dream about Paris without ever being able to go there, but that doesn't mean it's a hidden gem. For those able to visit Mecca it is certainly in the category of well-known and well-visited, and for those not, well. I don't think easiness of visiting has ever been a criterion for DoTM. –LPfi (talk) 13:17, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I couldn't agree more. Off the Beaten Path for Mecca is absurd to the nth degree. I would like to reserve judgment until a Haji/Hajjah has the chance to pass judgment on the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:24, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Agree this has to DOTM. Tai123.123 (talk) 15:43, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Paris is quite a different story because anyone can visit there unless they have visa problems which applies worldwide. In Mecca's case, only Muslims can enter the city, so for most of the world's population, it's off the beaten track. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:20, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say the suggestion of OtBP is absurd; I'm not sure of current numbers, but before COVID something over two million foreigners a year came for Hajj plus Saudis doing Hajj & people visiting at other times. This is an extremely well-beaten path & has been for well over a thousand years.

Either Mecca as DotM or Hajj as FTT would make sense. Pashley (talk) 05:06, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think featuring somewhere that most of the world can't visit as destination of the month on an international, secular website is absurd. Haven't we had Hajj as FTT before? If not, that would be an alternative. However, it's probably a moot point, because none of us have visited Mecca, because we're not allowed.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:44, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, "mecca" literally means a place that's a huge draw for x-type of people. This discussion is IMO silly. You can't go somewhere, so therefore it's not off the beaten path but off-limits for you, but that doesn't mean there's no beaten path, just that you aren't on it. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:45, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm with TT on this one. If it's off-limits to most of the world's population, then it's not on the beaten track – it probably might be well known, but if no-one here has been there, then how can we check if everything is accurate? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:59, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please be sensible. Which track is more beaten than the one to Mecca? Do you want to make this site a laughingstock? Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:43, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree with others. Rather than thinking about Mecca in terms of who cannot visit, think of it in these terms: 1.9 billion people in the world are REQUIRED to visit this destination. Sure, not all of them will, but they should all be trying. That's nearly 1/4 of the entire population of planet earth. If 1 out of every 4 people have visited or are planning to visit a destination, there is no way it is off the beaten path. Almost all of our past DotMs have had less visitors. Everything will be "OtBP" if the DotM threshold is that over 25% of the world must have been there or be planning to visit said destination. Places like Tokyo, Sydney, Los Angeles, etc. would all be "OtBP" candidates. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:26, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

DOTM is just defied as a "Major Travel Destination", if one of the most visited cities in the world is not a major destination then I don't what it is. (This is per the definition at Previous Destinations of the month).

OTBP is defined as a "lesser-known or unusual travel destination", you cannot argue that Mecca is lesser known as many non muslims have heard of it even id though don't plan on visiting, if we make Mecca OTBP under the second definition provided (unusual travel destination) I feel this could even be taken as offensive by some Muslims. (Again definition provided by Previously Off the beaten path) Tai123.123 (talk) 14:59, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how you think I'm not being sensible. As TT says, "featuring somewhere that most of the world can't visit as destination of the month on an international, secular website is absurd". Simple as that, how is that not being sensible? Hypothetically, if someone does ever manage to create a guide article for Area 51, would you call that a dotm or an otbp? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:13, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We've made very clear why we think your argument is senseless. Where's the beaten path to Area 51? Gimme a break! I will say unmistakeably that if Mecca were to be nominated for "Off the Beaten Path", I will strongly oppose! Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:20, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but none of us here have visited Mecca. We could get someone from Wikipedia who might've been to Mecca to check everything is accurate though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:30, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's a different issue. However, Muslims have edited here; they just don't look at this page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:32, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why does it matter if any of us have visited, the definition listed at Previous Destinations of the month says it must be a major travel destination, not a place that Wikivoyage editors have been. Tai123.123 (talk) 01:19, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Because we get a similar situation as to the the slushed Pyongyang – purely based on online research. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:21, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Again that's a different issue, if we were to feature it would have to be DOTM (though again I still think it needs work per my earlier messages) Tai123.123 (talk) 01:23, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. However, as the drink section needs work, I guess it can't be featured until that's sorted out anyway. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:01, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Here's the current vote count if anyone's curious,

Dotm: 6 (Me, Ikan, Roovin, LPFI, Pashley, ChubbyWimbus)

OTBP: 3 (SHB, Ywwv, ThunderingTyphoons) Tai123.123 (talk) 01:17, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • It is not a vote; we are trying to work by consensus.

The notion of Mecca as OtBP strikes me as patently absurd. If you look at w:List of cities by international visitors, Mecca is 21st on the list, ahead of places like Prague (23), Amsterdam (26) or Miami (28). Las Vegas, Shanghai, Barcelona, LA, Milan & Vienna are in the 30s. San Francisco is ranked 72nd and Rio 98th. We would never for second consider any of those OtBP & should not consider it for Mecca.

It would take far stronger arguments than any above to make me even consider OtBP here.

Hajj as FTT would be an alternative. Pashley (talk) 14:27, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • Also w:Mecca estimates population at over two million. Pashley (talk) 14:43, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that Mecca should be a DOTM, not OTBP. It's a very frequently visited city during non-pandemic times and well known among people who haven't been or can't go there. I don't think the fact that the city is exclusive to travellers following a particular religion can change a destination from DOTM to OTBP. Gizza ^(roam) 00:58, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I know we work by consensus I just wanted to see which proposal had more support behind, also if no consenus can be be reached I feel the feature should be DOTM not OTBP (I feel this about all articles not just Mecca) Tai123.123 (talk) 07:08, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? Even if we would settle on whether to run the article as DoTM or OtBP, the article has some issues pointed out, which have yet to be resolved, two months after nomination. In any case, if we feature Mecca and neighboring Ta'if, there should be some cooldown time between them. /Yvwv (talk) 23:30, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Yvwv Featuring neighbouring Ta'if seems like a better alternative to me on top of the fact that we cannot decide whether to feature Mecca as dotm or otbp. And as Tai123.123 mentioned, we can only feature one of them during the next two years, so feel free to go ahead. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:34, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Havana[edit]

Place: Havana Blurb: The capital of Cuba has been relatively isolated for half a century, but becomes increasingly open for visitors. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: November to May, weather-wise. Not sure about events. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 16:09, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We have had zero DoTMs from the Caribbean. As Cuba becomes more open and reformed, costs are expected to rise, and the revolutionary character can be expected to fade away.

Nomination

• Comment The lead can be improved Tai123.123 (talk) 19:56, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Needs work on top of what Tai123.123 mentioned, a lot of the casas particulares don't have coordinates. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:53, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  There are 12 with coordinates, 16 without. You could choose between the 12 if you want to use your GPS. The others can still be found by address, directions or by asking. Good of course if somebody knows how to find the coordinates of places over there. As we don't like long lists, should it be split up in some way (or pruned, but I suppose these get fully booked more easily than hotels). –LPfi (talk) 08:50, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  My understanding is that for a guide article, you wouldn't need to consult another guide because it's already there – but if you say "by asking", that is very similar to consulting another guide. Plus, many listings in this article also lack addresses – it's useless having coords but no addresses when printing it out unless it's a case like Port Campbell National Park where it's pointless because all the POIs have the same address. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I suppose we should do something general about using our guides offline. You can download the guides, but if you get neither the map tiles nor the coordinates, and we rely on them, we turn those travellers down. –LPfi (talk) 10:57, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? Zero support votes and severe unaddressed issues nearly three months into nomination. /Yvwv (talk) 02:05, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to. By the time the next time this gets nominated, Cuba will have developed even further. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:50, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ingolstadt[edit]

Place: Ingolstadt Blurb: A pleasant Bavarian town at the Danube, known for Frankenstein, Audi and the Illuminati. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Northern summer for weather, or April for Fest zum Reiner Bier. Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 18:07, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply] Comment: With more than 100,000 citizens, is it big enough for DoTM?

Nomination

• Support once information is added about the theatre. For me, this is borderline DOTM/OTBP. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 20:28, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Support as well. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 20:33, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I had a relook at it, but I'm going to say some urgent work is needed – are there really only five places to eat? Until that is resolved, I don't support a feature for the time being. --04:01, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Scheduled provisionally. Avoiding to feature at the same time as German cuisine. /Yvwv (talk) 23:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Put on hold? The article has unaddressed issues. Should we run Deventer instead? /Yvwv (talk) 20:10, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Or possibly Gavle? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:43, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Very close to Archipelago Trail, so they should not be featured the same month. We could run Gävle for August, or delay the Archipelago Trail to June/July. /Yvwv (talk) 02:45, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Makes sense. Another possibility would be to feature Perce to May replacing Ingolstadt, move Budderoo NP one month forward so we feature both in a more favourable season and then feature Savaii during October which works for all three destinations. We could feature Gavle during December as it has more support than Punta Arenas. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:52, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd very much like to have the Archipelago Trail featured in May as planned, as that gives it all the season, while a feature in July would mean that places are closing down by the end of the feature. –LPfi (talk) 08:33, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah it's likely that the Archipelago Trail won't change. Looks like this might only be featured next year. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:36, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? Has been nominated for months with remaining issues. /Yvwv (talk) 23:54, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead and feel free to. We have many destinations from Deutschland that are in better shape. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:59, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ohio state parks[edit]

Place: Ohio state parks Blurb: Ohio has plenty of public land with great scenery and opportunities for hiking, camping, and fishing. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Probably northern summer Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 20:17, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply] Comment: We have had few features from the Midwest, and none from Ohio. Could also be considered for OtBP.

Nomination

• Conditional support If the red links are eventually created, I'll support. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:36, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm changing from support to not yet per Ikan. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:35, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Scheduled provisionally for June/July. /Yvwv (talk) 11:33, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Support as a well-formatted article with extensive travel and activities information, and a model for any articles providing lists of parks. I'm not concerned about the redlinks, which are to county articles that don't fit into our region structure. These redlinks can be removed or redirected to those counties' regions. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 00:13, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: But the red links do have to be dealt with in some way. My feeling is that this is a very practical guide to what facilities are available in each park, but what it doesn't have enough of for my taste is overviews of why you would want to go to Park A, Park B, Park C, etc. I would like to see every entry have a statement of what's special about that particular park, especially considering that none of these parks appear to have their own articles. If they had their own articles, such a statement and indeed some of the practical details could be farmed out to those articles, but that isn't the setup. So ultimately, my vote is not yet, but I consider this a very useful and promising article and believe that with some work by people who know these parks, this could be not just a feature but a particularly good feature. (I made a small change to the blurb: Sceneries -> scenery. I don't think I've ever seen that word in the plural except on this site.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:58, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

On hold due to lack of support. /Yvwv (talk) 22:02, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slush? The article has many identified issues that have not been addresed since the nomination three months ago. We could re-nominate when the article has improved. /Yvwv (talk) 11:38, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you as the nominator feel it should be slushed, then go ahead. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:40, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keszthely[edit]

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