Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub

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Hey everyone!  

We at Wikimedia Small Projects are excited to suggest bringing the Wikivoyage communities together once more for a event—you know, just in time for the 2026 World Cup! We’re calling it the "Wikivoyage World Cup 2026," and we’d love for you to be part of it.

Here are some of our hopes for the event:  

• To bring all our active Wikivoyage communities together—especially those speaking Spanish, English (yes, I know this is the right community), and French, since they’re connected to the host countries.  

• To team up with local chapters like Wikimedia Mexico, Wikimedia Canada, and the affiliates in the United States.  

• To improve existing articles and create new ones about Canada, Mexico, and the United States.  

• To have a centralnotice to keep everyone in the loop.

We’re thinking of holding the event from June 11 to August 20, so it’s a good idea to start getting things ready now. I know this has come up before, and I’d really love for you to join us in coordinating the event and reaching out to affiliates and/or volunteers who might be interested.

Regards, Lord Ravager (talk) 03:03, 25 March 2026 (UTC)Reply

Like last time, I'm happy to judge/evaluate the articles submitted as part of this contest once again. //shb (t | c | m) 05:36, 25 March 2026 (UTC)Reply

I support this initiative. I would say that it should be open to all Wikivoyage languages since many dominant national football teams don't use English, French or Spanish (looking at you, Portugal, Brazil and Germany). OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 15:58, 15 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Lord Ravager Can you let us know when this is set up? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 15:54, 19 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'm happy to do so... and I'm happy to clean up articles regarding football as well. Globetrotter30 (talk) 15:33, 26 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Lord Ravager: Any updates on this btw? //shb (t | c | m) 03:32, 27 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I apologize for the delay. We've been busy with the educational program and the event taking place in Mérida. I'll be contacting the communities in the next few days and requesting CentralNotice to publicize the event. Regards, Lord Ravager (talk) 23:36, 2 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

IRL procrastination, a random shower thought for better user retention, and 100 or so Gemini prompts (i.e. AI/vibecoding): the results of that led me to create Wikivoyage:Travel Tracker. It's a personal tool that any logged in user can use to track which countries they've visited. No scripts that need to be installed, just go to Special:MyPage/Visited and check it out for yourself.

Why? Part of what got me hooked into Jetpunk was exactly their country tracker. Many people use online sites to track their travels nowadays. The idea is so that casual users – users that occasionally edit Wikivoyage but only ever so often, perhaps choose to use this travel tracker, then are immediately incentivised to update their travel maps after visiting somewhere new, hopefully also updating some actual articles in the process.

The tool still has many teething issues, some that will take time to fix, but it's usable for the most part. Alongside Andree's trip planner, I hope this too can be added to the topbar. I'm also planning on perhaps creating a similar tool for US/Indian/Mexican/Brazilian states, depending on how things go. Any feedback/fixes appreciated and welcome. :)

//shb (t | c | m) 11:43, 9 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

This works well for me at first glance! (I found one glitch, "Bosnia and Herzegovina" isn't shading for me.) It would be fun to have a way to note regions and cities as well, then I'd probably use it as a "Places I've visited"/"Articles I've worked on" section on my User Page. Gerode (talk) 16:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

The glitch is unfortunately a long-standing property of kartographer - it here are too many regions, it may not display all of them. Also, sometimes the OSM data import breaks. E.g. Thailand shape is quite broken currently, too. -- andree 19:07, 9 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Yeah for the first I've found usually just a hard cache solves that issue. OSM data import breaks yeah I have no idea how to fix that (similar issue with Singapore too). //shb (t | c | m) 22:47, 9 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Created phab:T422902 for the Thailand/Singapore issue – seems to be a pretty widespread problem across WMF projects so I def think it's worth this getting looked into by more technical people than us. //shb (t | c | m) 03:59, 10 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Also have given the tracker a little bit of a revamp in terms of style + few finishing touches (like a numerical counter). //shb (t | c | m) 05:05, 10 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

For some reason Q38 (Italy) was added twice for me, using purely the editor. Otherwise, nice work :-) -- andree 19:05, 9 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Ah, I see the issue (Estonia mistakenly had the Wikidata item of Italy) – fixed! :) //shb (t | c | m) 22:51, 9 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

It's a fun tool. To make it more interesting, you could also provide an option to break it down by region (state, province, etc.) for the top ten countries by population or area. Gizza ^(roam) 03:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I've added this tool to the topbar – should work in both vector 2010 and vector 2022, but not skins older than that. //shb (t | c | m) 08:51, 12 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Wow, that feature works, on Temporary Accounts too. ~2026-69216-3 (talk) 12:36, 12 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Since temporary accounts only lasts for 90 days from initial creation, @~2026-69216-3 you may want to create an account soon because your current temporary account will expire by the end of this month. As for the tool itself, I noticed that your shaded countries don't show up on my end. On the broader picture, I propose that we limit this tool to registered accounts. Otherwise we will potentially have tonnes of abandoned Temporary Account map pages that people can't access after 3 months. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 04:45, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'd go further and say that I don't think temporary accounts should be able to create userspace pages at all for the same reason you mention. Maybe I'll start a separate discussion for that sometime later. But yeah @~2026-69216-3 in your case, would recommend doing that (and then perhaps moving your map to your userspace under a registered account). //shb (t | c | m) 06:17, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

If they can't create a User: space page, then they'll have a harder time telling us some things that we want to know (ordinary user page content, like languages spoken), and they won't be able to create a sandbox for testing, which could lead to making more mistakes in the mainspace.

Also, at the moment, this is not a big problem. Almost none are being created, and only 14 exist in total.

When we reach the point of having, say, 100 or 500 or some other large number of such pages, I think we could have a generous deletion policy for User: pages, but I don't think we need a wholesale ban. By "generous", I mean that if it's more than, say, a year old and just test edits (or actually problematic in some way), then any admin should feel free to delete it. I do not mean that an admin marks their calendar to search and delete all User: pages because it just annoys the admin's sense of tidiness that those contributors were allowed to create pages in the User: space. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hmm that's true, you do have a point especially because "Draft:" isn't a namespace here. I'll try to think of how else we could solve that issue. //shb (t | c | m) 21:52, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

That is okay to me. ~2026-69216-3 (talk) 00:40, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Still any particular reason why you haven't just created an account btw? //shb (t | c | m) 00:42, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

For me, I have a preference. I would rather edit as temporary user, other than creating the registered or named account. I do not plan to stick around as much in the future. ~2026-69216-3 (talk) 20:32, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I didn't propose to restrict Temporary Accounts from creating any "User:" pages. I am only proposing restriction on TAs creating the "/visited" pages because they can't stick around past 90 days. From a technical standpoint, is there a way to display a message only to TAs that "hey, you can use this tool locally but if you want to truly save it or show it to friends, you need to register an account"? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 15:06, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I went to see if I could embed this on my main User page. Could you add an easy way to suppress the checkboxes, maybe by a flag on the VisitedMap template? Not only would that make this map embeddable, it would make it harder for me to check boxes on other people's pages! Gerode (talk) 21:14, 12 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Gerode: You should be able to now embed this on your userpage (just by transcluding {{User:Gerode/Visited}}). Suppressing the checkboxes I've got planned, probably using the abuse filter (since there are some cases where I think it's okay and I'd rather a warn system over a complete disallow). //shb (t | c | m) 23:36, 12 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Is there a limit to how many countries the tracker can show? On my map, a bunch of random countries (the UK, France, Spain, Philippines, Laos) are not showing up even though they're selected. Asamboi (talk) 03:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Usually it's a cache issue – Special:Purge should do the trick (they appear for me on your map). //shb (t | c | m) 03:39, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I would recommend adding a "refresh" button which functions like it's a purge, with a line telling user to click on the refresh button if the map doesn't update or have countries missing. We can't expect new users to know a special page. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 13:49, 15 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I like this idea (have always thought about it). It also pairs well with the world editing challenge. But at first save Australia and New Zealand weren't shaded until I refresh the page. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 04:35, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Echoing other comments, this is a nice little gadget, I tried it out the other day. An idea for how to develop it further would be an additional layer for countries the user would like to visit (maybe in green or red?). In addition to Singapore which was mentioned above, also the main part of Morocco does not want to show up. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:26, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

So far I've fixed Thailand and HK on OSM. Singapore should be easy to fix, and I'll have to look into what's causing the issue for Serbia and Morocco. //shb (t | c | m) 21:51, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

SG now also fixed. //shb (t | c | m) 02:05, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Uganda is not shown. --RolandUnger (talk) 05:39, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

It seems to show for me – you might need to clear your cache or give it a refresh. //shb (t | c | m) 05:45, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Serbia's mapping to Kosovo. Let's not start the next world war shall we? :) OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 17:20, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I tried to fix it last night – ig a waiting game to see how long it'll take for this change to be mirrored here. :P //shb (t | c | m) 04:13, 15 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

And Morocco. //shb (t | c | m) 12:32, 15 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@OhanaUnited: Both Serbia and Morocco now fixed. //shb (t | c | m) 02:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

mexico, belize, panama, costa rica, Brazil, Argentina, Tunisia, Spain, Portugal (and probably a few more I have missed are not working for me). Is there a limit to how many you can add? Jdlrobson (talk) 03:10, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000 @Andree.sk I debugged this some more and I am seeing a call to https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?getgeojson for every single country in the map. So for 195 countries, the browser tries to open 195 concurrent or sequential connections.

This architecture doesn't scale with our traffic and is currently triggering 429 requests which is likely why many of the countries are not showing for people. This also increases the risk that this feature could interfere with tools and other features on that site that may in future get rate limited.

Can we look to get this fixed sometime next week, given this risk here? I suggest we use a single request with a pipe-separated or comma-separated list of Q-ids if that's possible or at minimum batch the queries with setTimeout and caching using mw.storage for subsequent requests. Jdlrobson (talk) 19:35, 19 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

If it's possible to fix this, that would be appreciated (I'm not entirely sure how to make it such – I'm also a bit preoccupied this week and life irl has been quite hazy, but I'll give it a shot). //shb (t | c | m) 22:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I've tried batching Module:VisitedMap – does that perhaps solve some of the issues? //shb (t | c | m) 04:14, 20 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Yes! That seems to have done the trick! Thank you for the speedy fix! Jdlrobson (talk) 04:20, 20 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Awesome! Glad to know that works. :) //shb (t | c | m) 04:24, 20 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Do you know the reason why the link to the travel map doesn't appear on Traveller's pub page? It shows up on all other pages (Wikivoyage namespace, mainspace, user page space, etc.) OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 17:02, 11 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I can see it in the 'usual spot' (under the user icon), but only when you scroll all the way up. When the icons transform into the 'top bar', the submenu doesn't contain the entry. -- andree 19:30, 11 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

This is on vector 2022 I take it? //shb (t | c | m) 22:40, 11 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

New bug I've noticed, once again with the Kartographer extension: for some reason, Germany and the Netherlands don't show up for anyone, but it works perfectly fine using {{mapshape}}. I took a cursory look and there was nothing I could really pinpoint that was causing this issue, so maybe a phabricator task is needed? //shb (t | c | m) 11:57, 31 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Interesting, the issue seems to have fixed itself overnight. Kartographer is weird man... //shb (t | c | m) 00:27, 1 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Replicable bug: if you create a new listing, and add something to the `wikidata` element, it gets dropped when you save. Is there an open bug for this? Or can somebody point me at the source code? Asamboi (talk) 03:15, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

probably a question for @Andyrom75 or @Jdlrobson at Wikivoyage:Listing_editor -- andree 07:14, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Asamboi, I'm not sure I got your point. In Plovdiv I've created a new listing as a test with Wikidata field duly filled. It worked (then I removed it). Could you please check it and let me know what I misunderstood? Thanks, Andyrom75 (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

https://guide.world/ —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:31, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Odd that it mentions Wikipedia but not Wikivoyage… HyperAnd (talk) 20:48, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

It links to guides by one author 21 times, and another gets 7 links. I wouldn't regard it as a neutral list, and it may deliberately avoid listing worldwide guides - the major commercial guides also don't get a mention. AlasdairW (talk) 22:42, 14 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

There seems to be an influx of new Nigeria articles. Is this related to any known event, or another event in violation of the event organizer policy? //shb (t | c | m) 12:52, 17 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

It looks like 21 new articles were posted. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:40, 17 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@User:Bigcee007, @User:Viva33, @Ngozi scholar Okafor, @User:Celetex, @User:Senator Choko, @User:OGA Goody, @User:Adakaibe (and please read WV:Naming conventions#Disambiguation, which is not done in the same style on this site as on Wikipedia), @User:Akwugo, @User:Chikwas, @User:IfyClassique, @User:Bigkotech, @User:Nneka Ibeanu, @User:Ennydavids: Can you all tell us what is going on and link the organizing page for us? Who trained you in how to edit on Wikivoyage? Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:39, 17 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

...and @Goodymeraj: who posted a block appeal on behalf of someone else on my talk page. //shb (t | c | m) 05:42, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Good morning sir. I posted the appeal. We are currently on a project of visibilizing some Nigerian communities on Wikivoyage. The users you mentioned and tagged above are part of the exercise. Bigcee007 is one of them. That's why I'm appealing on his behalf. Thank you so much Goodymeraj (talk) 05:52, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Goodymeraj, please answer the questions we've asked you. Also, importantly, have you read Wikivoyage:Welcome, event organizers? If not, read it right away! Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Please which other questions did you ask that I've not answered. And yes, I read the Wikivoyage:Welcome, event organizers Goodymeraj (talk) 05:58, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

And when did you inform us about this event prior to it happening and solicit our advice and collaboration? Read and answer the questions in this thread. I see no reason to repost them. They are in the first and third posts in this thread. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:53, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Goodymeraj:...so it was you behind this expedition? What do you mean you've read the event organizers policy, but then failed to do every single step listed on that page? //shb (t | c | m) 12:33, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

We have to decide what to do about this; by all appearances, it's exactly what the event organizers policy is supposed to prevent, and everyone involved is so far evading all our questions. Should we be asking right now whether all of the edits should be reverted and all the participants should be blocked, or is the more salient question whether the organizer should be banned? Our policy is either in force or it's a dead letter, so it's important for us to figure out the best course of action and take it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:31, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Can everyone please calm down a bit? I can see why Ikan asks the questions above, but I definitely do not think we should answer yes to either of them. Both the organiser & the participants appear to be acting in good faith, so heavy-handed measures should be avoided if possible.

A lot of our coverage of Africa is quite weak & we definitely want contributions from new users with local knowledge. Yes, the inevitable new user blunders are irritating, but nothing that cannot be dealt with. Pashley (talk) 16:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

It's the eternal paradox of the new editors: Newbies are 'expensive', but the community will die without them.

As we discussed months ago at Wikivoyage talk:Welcome, event organizers#A draft of a substitute for the text on this page I'm not convinced that banning organizers is the right choice, especially on a "first offense", when we can't know whether they read the page before the event.

I do think these articles need improving. Picking one at random, Igbo-Ukwu is a site of archaeological significance. The population is around 75,000, so it's the kind of place we probably ought to have an article on. It would be nice to have information added to this article (e.g., hotels, restaurants, several festivals), but I'm not sad that we have five sentences instead of zero. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:15, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

People acting in good faith would answer our questions. The silence in reply to them is deafening. We need answers ASAP. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:02, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: I'd personally ban the organizer for both failing to adhere to the event organizer policy, and also blatantly lying about having read the page. Maybe I'd give a 24–48-hour grace period (from the time of your message), because any longer and that just increases the workload for everyone else trying to clean their mess. //shb (t | c | m) 21:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

And also for playing dumb ("Please which other questions did you ask that I've not answered") and refusing to answer any of the questions at the top of the thread. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:28, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

You're assuming there actually was "an" organizer (possible, but not certain) and that the group didn't get together for fun and decide at the last minute to edit Wikivoyage instead of Wikipedia. If so, I'm sure they won't make that mistake again, after this WV:FUN reaction. Consider:

• "Have you read Wikivoyage:Welcome, event organizers? If not, read it right away!"

And then when the person did read it, you react like they should have traveled back in time to implement it retroactively:

• "What do you mean you've read the event organizers policy, but then failed to do every single step listed on that page?"

I think this is the most important question that's been asked so far:

• Can everyone please calm down a bit?

WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:47, 20 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Would it be appropriate to make sign language phrasebooks? Such languages are actually in use, especially in places that have concentrated deaf communities, unlike say, Latin. HyperAnd (talk) 21:10, 17 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Absolutely! How would you do it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:40, 17 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Now that's the tricky part. Most of the notation used to write sign languages aren't very readable to an average traveller. We could simply just use video, but video isn't very editable for a wiki, so it should be supplemented with written notation if possible. The most promising notation I see are Wiktionary's notation and w:SignWriting. Wiktionary's notation doesn't use hard-to-understand symbols, but it's non-visual. SignWriting is very visual, but we need to enable a gadget to render it because most devices can't handle 2D arrangement of text. The gadget is mw:Extension:SignWriting MediaWiki Plugin, but unfortunately it's largely unmaintained. Here's the gadget implemented on ASL Wikipedia in the incubator if you want to see how it looks (though it doesn't render on the mobile skin). HyperAnd (talk) 00:37, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

My feeling is, if it can be useful to travelers, do it. I think video and pictures are most useful. I couldn't make head or tails of the ASL symbols, but is it important for travelers to know them? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:59, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

My take: for most travelers, probs not – but I can see these phrasebooks being useful in the odd situation and I don't see an issue with sign language phrasebooks if someone is willing to create them and make such phrasebook useful. //shb (t | c | m) 08:05, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Well, many deaf and hard of hearing people read and edit websites, and there are various different sign languages, so I think sign language "phrasebooks" would be very useful to that segment of our readership and also people with keen hearing who want to communicate with them. The difficulty, if anything, is that these would be primarily video or picture phrasebooks, but the concept is the same and the need is clear. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:18, 18 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think sign language phrasebooks would be welcome, but I do see practical difficulties. I understand that there are several English based sign languages: American Sign Language, British Sign Language, New Zealand Sign Language etc which may be difficult for sign users. The phrasebook would need to be illustrated with photos (or drawings) unless we change Wikivoyage:Image policy to allow short videos in this exceptional case. I don't think wiki editing of a video is an issue if videos are kept short (less than 10 seconds) so editing is done by uploading a replacement, as with photos. AlasdairW (talk) 21:07, 19 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

The project certainly needs new users, especially in areas where our coverage is weak. On the other hand, new users often do various problematic things because they naturally are not familiar with local policies & conventions.

Overall, I think the old hands here do a reasonable job of correcting problems, welcoming people & pointing out issues, though there are times when some of the regulars need a reminder of Wikivoyage:Keep Wikivoyage fun and don't bite the newbies. I also think most new users do quite well at learning & adapting.

Are there ways we could improve this? We point new users to Wikivoyage:Tips for new contributors; does that need improvements (Wikivoyage_talk:Tips_for_new_contributors#Reorganize)? What about Template:Welcome? In particular, should the template text be shortened, deleting things that duplicate parts of the Tips page?

There are things we could do in software, but should we? Make the signup software display a link to Tips? Have the software that creates user pages automatically add the template? Have a bot that looks for empty "User talk:" pages & drops the template on them? Pashley (talk) 11:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Would you like to propose any specific edits? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:27, 20 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

About making Special:CreateAccount display a link to Tips: How many of our first-time editors are creating a new account here? I believe that many of our contributors already have accounts from Wikipedia or Commons. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:39, 20 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hi everyone, just a quick note to share that the Wikimedians of Albanian Language User Group will be organizing the Summer of Wikivoyage Edit-a-thon 2026 on May 8–9. This year, we are focusing on Kukës, Albania, and other travel destinations in Albania and Kosovo in English language. There will be an offline event, and everyone is also welcome to join online on Saturday from 10:00–17:00 (GMT+2) on here. See you there! Thank you! Vyolltsa (talk) 15:21, 21 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Awesome, and thanks for the notice! I look forward to working with the group. The edit-a-thons on Albania and Kosovo are always done well. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:46, 21 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Vyolltsa, thanks again!

@Ruhan.paco, @Enarda Muhadri and @ErgisaHoxha, welcome, and thanks for adding information!

There are three things I want to call your attention to:

(1) Default address information (starting with the name of the town, if it's the same as the article title) is not included in addresses on this site.

(2) The "directions" tab in listings is a place for a parenthetical phrase (so no sentences) and includes only things like cross streets and if someplace is directly across the street or down the block from a huge landmark like the main railway station.

(3) Wikivoyage does not approve of stating in any listing that anyplace is "near" x or y, because that is vague though possibly promotional and usually not worth noting if an address - and even better, geocoordinates - are provided.

@MegiNnnnn, some of your edits have another, more basic issue addressed by User:Ground Zero on your user talk page: a lack of information. All listings must include street addresses, geocoding (latitude/longitude) or at least some kind of way for readers to find them, and if at all possible, contact information, too.

I hope I didn't leave anyone out. Please feel free to share these words of advice among your collaborators!

All my best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:57, 9 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'm not going to name names here, but I had to delete a listing for touting and obviously copying and pasting from a promotional site in violation of Wikivoyage:Copyleft. Don't do that. And also, please use WV:Listings templates for all specific listings (not general activities like fishing, though). Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:06, 9 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Welcome to @Ledion Aga, @MrsNora, @MrsHajrie, @Marigen Kovaçi, and please look over this subthread. I may have left someone out. Is there a complete list of participants somewhere? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:11, 9 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Some of the contributors may not able to understand your comments without our support. Please give us some time to clean up. Here is the full list of edits from the participants. Thank you for your understanding! Arianit (talk) 16:14, 11 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Sure thing. Thanks for all you do! Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:46, 11 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

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~ Moheen ^{(keep talking)} 20:50, 21 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I hope the event is a smashing success! Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:36, 22 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Seconded, would be even more amazing if some of those photos submitted can be used in some of our articles here. Either way, all the best, Moheen. //shb (t | c | m) 04:52, 22 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

2,480 – that's the number of outline region articles there are at present. Out of 3,610. That puts the number of outline region articles at about 68%, as of writing this message. A majority of articles you'll stumble across will have no content in either the see, do, eat and drink sections, and it's very explainable: writing content in most region articles is a fairly time-consuming exercise whilst simultaneously also being one of the least read sections. In most cases, we want people to focus more on the understand, get in and get around sections for region articles rather than things to see or do, let alone eat/drink (which should really be mostly covered by individual city/park articles).

My solution is rather simple: remove the see, do, eat and drink sections as mandatory headings for outline and usable articles (but they should be a requirement for guide and star articles) so the site can have a bit of a more polished look. This site has had over 20 years to prove that these sections have been useful, and they haven't. I'm aware this is a bit different to all our other categories of articles, but regions are a bit of a unique case in that a) we don't list individual listings on region pages and b) the see, do, eat and drink sections provide so little value in a majority of cases.

//shb (t | c | m) 06:10, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I thought eat, drink and sleep were already optional for region articles. See and do shouldn't be optional. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:33, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Sleep is, but not eat/drink per Wikivoyage:Region article template. //shb (t | c | m) 06:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Let's make eat and drink optional, but I disagree with making see and do optional. There needs to be a summary of things or at least types of things to see and do in a region for it to be really usable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

That's fair I suppose – I don't feel too strongly about see/do so I'm fine with just eat/drink if that's what we all want. //shb (t | c | m) 07:12, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

We might want to have a discussion on the Wikivoyage talk:Region article template page to make it official, don't you think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:23, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

All that this can achieve is to make the metrics look a bit better, by lowering the quality threshold for a regional page to be considered "usable" – a bar that is already set low. Scrappy uninformative pages will remain scrappy and uninformative, not worth reading.

“Overhang” is the term I use for regional pages that remain outline even though their constituent pages are of good standard. My guess is that these are few, do we have any numbers about that? If (as seems likely) the outline regions mostly have outline cities, parks etc then it’s sensible to put the effort into the latter. Grahamsands (talk) 17:50, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Probably should've started the discussion there, but I think for such a major high-profile change I'd prefer the pub as the venue of discussion over Wikivoyage talk:Region article template. //shb (t | c | m) 22:29, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I wonder how often we have a regional article without usable articles below it. I have occasionally added attractions to a regional article because there was no 'city' article to stick it in. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:52, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Personally I think that's fine tbh – though I suppose in those cases that's where the question of whether a rural area article is more favorable arises. //shb (t | c | m) 22:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Agree with whoever said make it optional. I agree that most of the time they would be unnecessary but there are enough corner cases. Purplebackpack89 21:06, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I agree that region articles should have See and Do, and we should work towards filling those in, rather than removing them. Eat and Drink are useful, and exist in some region articles, but it does seem unlikely that we will be able to expand those any time soon. They should be optional, and removed if empty. I don't think Sleep should be in region articles at all. Ground Zero (talk) 21:19, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Although here is an example of a useful Sleep section in a region article. Ground Zero (talk) 21:33, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Regions should have See and Do, and can usefully have Buy, Eat, Drink or Sleep. Unfortunately you usually need to know a region well to provide complete content in any of these sections. AlasdairW (talk) 22:03, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Nicely put, AlasdairW. A really good Region SHOULD have Buy, Eat, Drink and Sleep sections that provide a high-level overview (similar to the Hberides article that Ground Zero cited. I agree that listings generally don't belong in Region articles (unless there isn't an appropriate city article for it). I'm okay with having all those sections be optional for regions, but feel strongly that they should be REQUIRED for a region article to become Guide or Star. Mrkstvns (talk) 17:52, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

This has prompted me to expedite the outline regions on my "to do" list, and for starters Hebrides (cited above, and already usable) was missing Eat and Drink. Quickly sorted. Three more can be done soon, improving the metrics by just under 0.1%. If we all put our shoulder to the wheel this problem will be swiftly fettled. Grahamsands (talk) 10:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Actual requirements: The cited region article template (at least since before 10 Dec) says about these four sections (the last sentence of each): "If there isn't anything to say about the region's [whatever] that isn't already covered by the descriptions in the Regions/Cities/Other destinations sections, or in the Understand section, then this section can be omitted."

For usable, "the most prominent attractions [must be] identified with directions"; for guide, there must be "information on multiple attractions and things to do". The [[region article status page doesn't require the sections under discussion to exist, for any status.

I indeed think one needs to say something about the most prominent attractions of a region before the page can be seen as usable. Also having Eat, Drink, See and Do sections in the template is reasonable, as that should make the editor think about what usable could be said about cuisine, nightlife and attractions. For some regions, what needs to be said is already in the city listings or in Understand, making the separate sections redundant. That's fine.

–LPfi (talk) 14:11, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

So to clean up region articles for regions you know: think whether there is something region-specific to say about the four subjects, check whether it is already said in other sections and either put content in the empty sections or remove them. If you are not sure about some section for some region, just leave those section headers for somebody else to make the decision. –LPfi (talk) 14:16, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

So 3 weeks later...I take it that there's general support for making eat/drink optional, but keeping see and do. //shb (t | c | m) 04:45, 18 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Maybe we should allow usable region articles to refer the reader to a larger region (or the country/state) article for information on eat, drink and sleep. That leaves the section in place, so any region specifics are more easily added. So if Hebrides didn't have anything to say for sleep, it would say "See Scotland#Sleep". AlasdairW (talk) 12:00, 18 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Have you checked the guideline I linked? Is there something in it you would like to change? –LPfi (talk) 17:24, 18 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

In the Eat and Drink sections of Wikivoyage:Region article template, replace "then this section can be omitted" with "provide a link to a this section in a a bigger region (which could be the country)". AlasdairW (talk) 19:31, 18 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Do we need sections that only have that link? Can't it just be included in context in Understand or even be regarded as implicit – the country's cuisine is usually described in the country article and in the absence of an eat section I assume readers would consult the country article without any pointer? In the case where nightlife is concentrated to one of the region's cities (not too uncommon), that can be said in the city's bullet as well as in Understand.

Of course, if we want that section, we can include such a sentence in Drink. But I think one-sentence sections are ugly, they look incomplete, and may attract tries at saying something, often resulting in pointless or redundant text, and perhaps listings that belong elsewhere.

–LPfi (talk) 09:09, 19 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

In cases like Greater Lyon and Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, the later of which has an extensive Eat section, it may of course be worthwhile to point out at which level of regions that description is to be found. If the region is indeed "capital of French gastronomy", then the section should probably not be omitted – there ought to be something to say. –LPfi (talk) 09:16, 19 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

My thoughts are mostly with LPfi's – it should generally be implied with our region structure, not that I think many people often read the eat/drink ections in the first place. //shb (t | c | m) 10:04, 19 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'm surprised you don't think they do. I would tend to think they would, as food is one of the most interesting things to many travellers and people generally. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:27, 19 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

It should be the case, but generally I (and a few people I've talked to irl about) find most eat/drink sections to be far too lacking to actually bother reading when many better sources exist online. Even when it comes to listings, it's not all that often I actually consult Wikivoyage for places to eat or drink, and nowhere near the same level as I do for see/do. //shb (t | c | m) 12:49, 19 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'd distinguish between listings for specific eateries and descriptions of a local cuisine. I'm always interested in reading the latter, especially if it's well written and a good read. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:59, 19 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hmm true, you have a point there. I do suppose that eat/drink sections of country articles (and also major region articles, like Quebec) tend to be a lot more useful than say the eat/drink sections of say South Central Iowa (which, in my opinion, can be safely removed). //shb (t | c | m) 03:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'd rather see something like "As with most of Scotland, self-catering cottages, camping, and bed-and-breakfast inns are available in the Hebrides" (customizing the text to whatever is most relevant). There could be a link on the opening phrase to Scotland#Sleep. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:26, 18 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hello from China. I wrote this. It is meant to be what I wish I had read before I went to China. I learned the hard way; I hope others don't have to (especially now that China is opening up re visa-free access). I am seeking some advice: 1) Is this appropriate for a standalone article? 2) If yes, then what template to use and also how to title it? 3) If no, then should I integrate it into China or just junk it? Basically I'd like your help in what to do with this. Any advice appreciated, thanks. Brycehughes (talk) 15:25, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think your write-up is valuable and practical, and I think the topic is too big to fit in China#Connect. I like your current title or Internet access in China, to match the general article. Gerode (talk) 15:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I agree with your assessment. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:09, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Me too. GrinningIodize (talk) 18:51, 26 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Yes, this article is valuable, especially as it has radically changed my attitude towards China as a whole. I was blocked at English Wikipedia back in 2021 for my blind hate towards China and Chinese, for which I have apologized repeatedly. And now, your article has sparked my curiosity towards that very country, its culture and people. It should be titled Internet access in China, as suggested by Gerode above. Thank you for writing this and also changing my mind for good. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:47, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hey, glad I could change your mind. Not sure how this article did it but whatever works. I've traveled to a few countries at this point and one thing I always notice is everybody basically wants to just get the kids to school on time, etc. Brycehughes (talk)

Sing it, brother. Getting the kids a good education, and taking care of the aging parents is universal. Ground Zero (talk) 17:20, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

In the west, taking care of aging parents is less? In India they die in your house. Dunno. Brycehughes (talk) 17:35, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I remember having tea with a guy in Isfahan. After we talked politics for a while, we ended up talking eldercare. He wanted to move to Tehran for career reasons. He was younger than me, but I have been through it in Toronto. The issues were similar. Ground Zero (talk) 22:26, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'd say still way more socially accepted in the west to send your aging parents to a nursing home than it is outside the west. As someone who's culturally from a non-western background, sadly not uncommon to witness drama with extended family when it comes to these sorts of matters. :( //shb (t | c | m) 23:49, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Sounds like I can keep the title, link at the China article. Technical stuff e.g. what templates to add can be done by more savvy people later. Brycehughes (talk) 17:37, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Also it is a silly banner image but these things make me laugh. Brycehughes (talk) 17:38, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Done and done. Please feel free to add proper templates to the article anyone so it's well fitted in the tree. Thanks, Brycehughes (talk) 17:44, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Staying connected in China. Brycehughes (talk) 17:58, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Ooh this is a good topic – I've read about advice on this here and there on Reddit, but never a full comprehensive guide. Nice work on this! //shb (t | c | m) 23:44, 24 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I wonder if we should cover bringing burner phones/devices in this page. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 06:24, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Certainly could, although my target for the article was more the I-want-to-watch-YouTube crowd as opposed to the I-want-privacy crowd. Could have a section on privacy I suppose. (Somewhat ironically, I have a burner phone, but I bought it for entering the USA.) Brycehughes (talk) 07:48, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think burner phones could be an entirely separate travel topic, since China isn't the only place where such advice would be applicable. //shb (t | c | m) 08:08, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Many people need burner laptops, but perhaps that's different enough to be handled in Computers. I assume that what needs to be said (and can be kept up to date) can be said on a screenful or two, so wouldn't make that article too long. –LPfi (talk) 14:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

It looks a useful article. If you know, it would be worth adding a note saying how much this applies to Hong Kong or Macau. The Great Firewall may be less active there, but it has been 7 years since I was last in Hong Kong. AlasdairW (talk) 09:52, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Same boat as you... I haven't been to Hong Kong since 2017. If anyone knows feel free to add. Brycehughes (talk) 10:57, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Well, the Great Firewall applies mainly to mainland China, and HK and Macau don't face such restrictions AFAIK. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 13:36, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I can back that up. I have friends in Shenzhen who often head over to Hong Kong because it's more convenient for accessing the open internet. ShuaiXuesheng (talk) 14:44, 25 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

The Great Firewall does not apply to Hong Kong. You can still freely use Wikipedia, Facebook, Whatsapp, Telegram and YouTube. Can't comment on Macau but I would imagine it's the same thing. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 16:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think the only risk with Hong Kong is that during political crises the CCP can lean on the HK government to restrict access. Brycehughes (talk) 08:04, 2 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

A request for comment is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. Thank you!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Finally! //shb (t | c | m) 01:20, 26 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I don't think this proposal is the best the movement can do. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:52, 26 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I agree and stated as much in comments at the link. Why don't we adopt a local policy that _any_ use of AI, very much including for "basic copy editing" and machine translation, must be disclosed? I'd be willing to tolerate spellcheck and grammar check if those are considered AI, but nothing else should be accepted without disclosure (or at all, if I had my druthers). We don't want people's writing style to be chucked in favor of bots. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:50, 26 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hence why I supported the opt-out policy. It might not be bad on this wiki where there is an active community to clean up after AI use, but I'm in the midst of a weeks-long effort of cleaning up after someone who mass-spammed AI translations of Interlingua (see this), which I've been slacking on a bit, but the whole mass translations are absolutely disruptive and something I'd never want to see again. //shb (t | c | m) 09:25, 26 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Great! We now have a policy about AI, globally. ~2026-69216-3 (talk) 08:12, 26 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

No, we don't. And even if they pass, we need to write our own. What bothers me about "disclosure" is that it adds deadweight to affected edits, especially when the edit itself is minor. Can a label be used for the purpose? –LPfi (talk) 11:51, 26 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@LPfi Sure, a label can be used for the purpose. ~2026-69216-3 (talk) 23:29, 27 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I oppose AI's use on the travel guide. Globetrotter30 (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Would you allow photos, where some obstruction has been removed by an AI tool? What about finding sources when researching some off destination? May I use AI to construct a table or diagram? May my dyslectic friend have an AI point out possible spelling errors? May one use a voice-to-text AI if typing is difficult because of that accident?

As AI is getting common, restrictions on its use will interfere with established workflows of some, soon many, contributors. Thus we need to identify the things we absolutely don't want done with AI or assisted by AI, and those where AI assistance isn't a problem.

–LPfi (talk) 12:58, 27 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I oppose all of AI's use as far as LLMs are concerned, but for researching off wiki you can't control that, and it is helpful. AI shouldn't be used to construct a table or diagram. A dyslexic person may use it to use this voice to text typing,

I think they should make the wording more specific and inclusive for this new regulation.

Thanks, Globetrotter30 (talk) 18:18, 28 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I would be fine on all of them, as long as these are legitimate uses. But for GenAI, it should not replace jobs from real workers. ~2026-69216-3 (talk) 06:16, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

For those not following the tech news, phab:T418484 will be a pretty important update for how autoconfirmed is configured on all wikis. Namely, to quote the tech news:

There is a new change in how new users are autoconfirmed that will improve anti-vandalism protection. Currently, users who have had an account for a few days and made a few edits are automatically added to the Autoconfirmed users group. This configuration tends to be exploited by some vandals, who create accounts and start to use them only after some time. To mitigate this, the configuration will be updated next week so that – for the purpose of becoming autoconfirmed – the account age will be counted from their first edit, instead of registration date. The numeric value of the age threshold will remain the same. This change will be deployed only to wikis which require at least one edit as part of the autoconfirmation conditions.

I've made the change to Wikivoyage:Autoconfirmed users accordingly, but I do think this is a change that should be more widely announced to the community. //shb (t | c | m) 23:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Seems like a good change. Thanks for amending the page, but I think the people for whom the knowledge is essential are quite few over here, and I assume most of them check the pub (or the technical news), so I wouldn't be worried about somebody missing it. –LPfi (talk) 13:49, 28 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I trust that this works. A few years ago I had trouble with a vandal who had been blocked. His modus perandi was to create a new account, make a dozen or so reasonable edits (not difficult to do - a typo here, a grammatical correction there) and then he started harrassing me. Martinvl (talk) 16:09, 28 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think this will have little effect on long-term abusers. If the current pattern is "create account, wait 4 days, make a dozen reasonable, non-block-worthy edits, and then start harassing", then the only think that changes is the order of the elements: "create account, make a dozen reasonable, non-block-worthy edits, wait 4 days, and then start harassing". WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:40, 29 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

It still does prevent getting autoconfirmed while doing a series of block-worthy edits, with no preceding good or neutral ones. I assume some abusers don't move over to the new strategy. (And this also has no effect one those doing just one edit per account – if it helps against some abusers, then it is good.) The downside is that somebody who registered an account for reading and now does a few edits doesn't immediately become autoconfirmed. I don't think they expect that, so it is no big deal. –LPfi (talk) 07:29, 29 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

At present there are very few LTAs that follow this pattern – and I'd say because most LTAs are not bright enough to have the capability of making good edits in the first place. //shb (t | c | m) 07:38, 29 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Good change as well, I support this change. Vandalism is rife. Globetrotter30 (talk) 18:21, 28 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

We have various foreign-language phrasebooks covered at phrasebooks. However, there's only one article that isn't about language but about a writing system, and that is Learning Devanagari, a "scriptbook". The very existence of such a "scriptbook" means there could be scriptbooks on Cyrillic or Perso-Arabic. However, the Cyrillic articles are deleted and salted for being "out of scope". So, should scriptbooks exist on Wikivoyage at all, or be migrated elsewhere (like Wikibooks or Wikiversity)? Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:13, 28 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

As far as I know, travellers are more likely to talk to locals than reading scripts, especially as written languages can be translated with the translation services on your phone. Probably that's why we have so many phrasebooks and only one "scriptbook". Of course, there are obscure writing systems that translation services can't parse, and phrasebooks of respective languages are enough to cover such cases (since only one or few languages would use such obscure scripts). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:17, 28 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

There are downsides to pointing your smartphone at every sign you want to read. For Cyrillic, learning the letters isn't too hard, so anybody travelling to Russia (or Ukraine) should try. On the other hand, the alphabets could easily be explained in the phrasebooks, with remarks on pronunciation in context, so I don't think a scriptbook is warranted – but neither do I think it should be salted.

Devanagari is more complex, and the ligature are not very intuitive for most English speakers. I think that included the content of that article into half a dozen individual phrasebooks wouldn't be a good alternative. How to handle the writing system is a judgement call and I wouldn't rule out other scriptbooks, although I cannot remind me any writing system for which I would recommend that solution.

–LPfi (talk) 13:43, 28 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I agree that while phrasebooks are useful for travelers, scriptbooks might be valuable, particularly for complex writing systems. They could be a good resource, especially for those not easily translated by phone apps. ~2026-69216-3 (talk) 15:20, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Got this message on an edit I tried to make on MY OWN userpage:

Unfortunately, this action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed.

If you believe your action was constructive, please leave a message on the travellers' pub. In your message, state what you were trying to do and the title of the page you were trying to edit.

A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Unregistered or New user blanking someone else's user or user talk page

Here is my abuse log for confirmation
https://fr.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchUser=ThatEquatorialGuineaEditor+%28alt%29

What? It's my page! Wdym? ThatEquatorialGuineaEditor (alt) (talk) 12:57, 29 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000: created an anti-spam filter (#66) that seems to be catching you. Maybe they can help. Ground Zero (talk) 13:06, 29 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Okay. Thanks. ThatEquatorialGuineaEditor (alt) (talk) 13:07, 29 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

66 is flag-only (mainly so it can get picked up by SWViewer), seems to be 35 that's catching your edits – the main issue here seems to be that your account isn't autoconfirmed. I've given you confirmed perms since your other account is already autoconfirmed which should hopefully stop the filter from disallowing your edits. //shb (t | c | m) 13:14, 29 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Thank you! ThatEquatorialGuineaEditor (alt) (talk) 13:18, 29 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

It was filter 35 that was the culprit. It seems the error was my fault: I used a construction that didn't work as expected. I am sorry. –LPfi (talk) 16:48, 29 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

It is all good! ThatEquatorialGuineaEditor (alt) (talk) 02:13, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Does anyone else see this same issue of no FTT icon appearing? Take a look at the pagebanner on common scams or Hamad International Airport for what I mean. The links work, but the icon doesn't. (cc @Andyrom75, Jdlrobson:) //02:00, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I do not see an icon. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:48, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

There is no icon for me. ~2026-69216-3 (talk) 15:19, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

The link to the image seems to have been broken somehow. The file still exists (c:File:Writing Circle.svg) (I also uploaded a white version for use in {{Banner}} which for consistency might be better?). The fix here should be to update the link in MediaWiki:Common.css on line 128. I don't have those permissions (interface admin) any more. Instead, @Andree, Andy, Atsirlin and JDL should be able to make the necessary edit. ― Wauteurz (talk) 19:39, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

hopefully fixed, we'll see when MW/ResourceLoader reloads the caches.. -- andree 20:14, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I see the FTT icon in the upper right of the banner for Common scams, so apparently that fixed it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:17, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Yep that did the fix – cheers, Wauteurz and Andree. :) //shb (t | c | m) 00:34, 1 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

If you are reading this, I suggest you to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6Y5cARFJw8

Summary: Cultural appropriation should never be a thing across America, including all of these holidays, and in daily life. The Halloween costumes that co-opt their cultures, are described as insensitive, dehumanizing, and unrepresentative of the culture, asked by six women. These women had a distaste of what their culture is used as Halloween costumes, and the reasons they presented, as erasing their culture, stereotypical, and a ignorance of the rich history of ethnic minorities. The most important of all, is that traditional attire, is considered to be sacred in different cultures, outside Western countries and nations.

Reminder: Please see the Halloween article, and the respect too. This quotation would be:

“Another consideration is that some costumes may grossly misrepresent diverse cultures or cause offence and upset to others. There has also been considerable debate about cultural appropriation. Purported 'Arab', 'Mexican', 'Indian', 'Geisha', or 'Asylum Patient' costume choices have all come under scrutiny. Costumes that mimic police or military style clothing (including those of historical regimes), may also cause offence or be mistaken for genuine.”

~ Buy: Costumes

Thank you for reading this. ~2026-26450-12 (talk) 19:06, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

This is a travel guide. We are not going to tell people what costumes to wear on this site. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:31, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think there's a bit of "know your audience" here. Around the time this old YouTube video was created, the Twitterverse blew up over a white American teen wearing a Chinese dress to a formal party. However, Chinese people in China thought it was acceptable.[1][2] WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:58, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I wear batik shirts all summer, and if anyone wanted to object to it (no-one has), I'd insist that they have a conversation with me in Malay. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:29, 1 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

This has to be a troll post. Brycehughes (talk) 09:34, 2 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

If you're doing it respectfully and acknowledge its origins, I don't see what's wrong with someone else's ethnic costume. When Katy Perry wore a kimono in one of her music videos, some Japanese-Americans were outraged, but people actually from Japan were perplexed as to why it was even controversial at all. And I've worn a traditional Indian shirt to a Deepavali party, and nobody found it offensive. The dog2 (talk) 07:26, 11 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Key to wearing costumes of other cultures is doing it respectfully, although the risk of committing faux pas is still there. Wearing them for Halloween is probably more controversial than wearing them in proper context, such as the Deepavali. Having Finns dressed as Sámi (unknowingly combining details in conflicting ways) performing "genuine" Sámi rituals for tourists is indeed seen as cultural appropriation. –LPfi (talk) 13:55, 11 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

It seems Spirit has gone bust last night. Currently about 320ish mentions of the airline, so will be a massive undertaking to fix this, but any help would be appreciated. //shb (t | c | m) 05:59, 3 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Some articles of India still mention Jet Airlines and GoAir, both of which have gone bust long ago. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:47, 3 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Would be a worthwhile project to remove mentions of those too. //shb (t | c | m) 01:28, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I suppose we'll have to search for all mentions of Spirit Airlines in other articles. Or maybe hold off to see who buys their assets. Purplebackpack89 16:01, 3 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

They've already had two rounds of bankruptcy. I don't think that a revival is at all likely. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:31, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

@WhatamIdoing Was more thinking a merger than a revival, that another airline would buy some of the planes and take over at least a portion of their routes. Purplebackpack89 16:45, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I expect all the remaining assets (everything from whole airplanes to office chairs to lease contracts on airport gates) to get sold off as part of the bankruptcy proceedings. I don't expect other airlines to really "take over their routes", but instead for some of them to increase the number of flights on routes that they were already serving, and a few to add a few new routes. Adding a new route can't be done overnight, so any airline that announces a new destination in the coming weeks has already been planning this for a while. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:47, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Do you guys want to buy it? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:48, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Shouldn't have vibecoded those servers... Brycehughes (talk) 12:58, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Reminds me of Global Airlines. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 13:17, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

It looks like they're up to US $88 million in "unverified" pledges. That's 17% of the bailout that Spirit had been seeking a week ago, and that various news sources said might keep the airline operational for as little as six months. So... enough to keep the airline going this month, assuming that all the pledges are real (and they never are, though in some fundraising areas, you might get as high as 90%)?

And then it dies again, of course. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:21, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

To keep it running, they need a sound business model and good management. They claim that the bankruptsy was due to the evilness of Wall Street (or so I interpret their message). They could be right, but it seems that running an airline company isn't easy these days, be it a legacy or budget one. If the business model really did work, then it is up to having the money and good management, and to not get vulnerable to Wall Street evilness (better not take loans from them). It would be really nice to hear them succeed, but I won't bet my mite on that. –LPfi (talk) 17:14, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I've read that they haven't been profitable since the pandemic in 2020. That suggests that they don't have a sound business model. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:49, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I mean LCCs around the world outside of Europe have been struggling since the pandemic, but Spirit was on a whole different level. //shb (t | c | m) 00:25, 5 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

What can we do by way of practical advice for travellers? There have been a fair number of stories about stranded passengers, stuck paying for a different flight, often at a higher price because one-way is usually more expensive than half of a return ticket & immediate flights more expensive than booking ahead. Spirit passengers stranded, Thomas Cook a few years ago involving 600,000 victims by some estimates, 10 Airlines That Went Bankrupt And Never Recovered, ...

There are sites with advice about this, US DOT, PBS, IATA & several travel guides. It seem to boil down to seeking a refund from your credit card company & looking for "rescue fares" where other airlines offer a discount.

Are there good ways to reduce this risk? Always pay with a credit card? Does travel insurance cover this? Should you fly only on major airlines? Pashley (talk) 17:00, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think Finland (the EU?) offers some protection if you book in the right way, after many passengers got stranded some years ago (COVID-19? 2008?). I think companies in the travel business are required to put money in a fund that covers their liabilities, so at least passengers should get their money back (I could be awfully wrong about the details). If you book through a travel bureau, then they take the responsibility (they probably have insurance). Then, of course, you shouldn't book via a "convenience flag" company. I believe that suitable travel insurance also covers this, but read the fine print. –LPfi (talk) 17:27, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

https://www.allianztravelinsurance.com/travel/planning/what-to-do-if-tour-company-airline-goes-bankrupt.htm indicates that travel insurance with what seems to be called "insolvency cover" (not very common) can help. US credit card issuers must refund the price of cancelled flights, but that doesn't seem to be true elsewhere.

I don't think that "only fly on major airlines" is reasonable. Airline bankruptcies are pretty uncommon in wealthier worlds. However, "don't fly on one that's already in bankruptcy proceedings" might be a reasonable rule. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:56, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

In the UK, and I think most of Europe, you have better consumer protection if you book a "package" of flight and hotel for a single price from a travel agent (which can be a part of the airline). If the airline goes bust when you are away, the travel agent has to arrange to get you home (without further charge), and the scheme is backed with a bond held by the CAA. See W:Air Travel Organisers' Licensing. AlasdairW (talk) 20:45, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Yes. EU regulations require that businesses that sell packages place a deposit that should cover expenses for bankrupt partners (they estimate the costs themselves, so a bankrupt business may not be able to cover everything). In addition to returning money paid to them for unavailable services, they have to arrange and pay your journey back, if the return was part of the package. This applies only if you bought a package. If you reserve flight and accommodation through them separately, or book things yourself with their assistance (so that you get agreements with the individual businesses), then their liabilities are very limited – but they should clearly inform you that this isn't a package deal.

If you bought tickets yourself, you have to either ask the company itself (which may have priority liabilities worth more than its assets) or your credit company, which only need to pay back what you paid, no additional expenses. You choose which of them to ask for compensation.

(I did not read the directive, but a bunch of official advice.)

–LPfi (talk) 09:03, 6 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

btw a bit late, but kudos to WhatamIdoing and Anyone150 for doing the bulk of the removals. :) //shb (t | c | m) 13:03, 9 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

In the last couple of days, we've seen a number of new articles about attractions in Montenegro, few if any of them destinations by Wikivoyage definitions laid out on the WV:What is an article page, and all of them in a custom, non-Wikivoyage structure with personal comments. Are these all by one person who's using multiple accounts, or is this some kind of unannounced event? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:56, 4 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Please respond, @Andjela555, @Zinuo67, @~2026-25860-58, @~2026-27229-97, @~2026-27107-15, @Stasya Kostova, @~2026-26916-20. You are well-intentioned, and most of the titles you are adding articles for deserve to be listed on this site, in the article for the nearest town, but because you do not know about Wikivoyage:What is an article and have no idea what Wikivoyage style (for example, Wikivoyage:Article templates, Wikivoyage:Pronouns and Wikivoyage:Goals) is, you are creating a mess, and if there is a planning or discussion page somewhere, one of us can post some basic Wikivoyage style and policy information to it to try to stop the mess from spreading. Please tell us who organized this editing event and who instructed you about what to add to Wikivoyage and how. It's important for us to know. Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:21, 5 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: Interestingly, from a CU check, it seems:

• Zinuo67 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • logs • block user • block log • CA • AllContribs • checkuser • investigate)
• Veda-Meda2015 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • logs • block user • block log • CA • AllContribs • checkuser • investigate)
• Ece Mira 67777 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • logs • block user • block log • CA • AllContribs • checkuser • investigate)
• Stasya Kostova (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • logs • block user • block log • CA • AllContribs • checkuser • investigate)
• Miona Colanovic (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • logs • block user • block log • CA • AllContribs • checkuser • investigate)

are all a 100% match (no account blocks have been made, however). At least technically, there is no indication of this coming from a shared address either. //shb (t | c | m) 06:23, 6 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Weird. Thanks for checking. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:51, 6 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Stasya Kostova created Skočidjevojka Bay which needs to be cleaned up (couldn't find the correct template to tag for cleanup). OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 04:18, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

There is no such template because we don't have enough editors to say "you do it!" But if I lack time or need help, I usually post a notice on an article's talk page, where to be fair it's often ignored, and I may forget about it for some time, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:46, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

In the case of Skočidjevojka Bay, it should probably just be tagged with {{stub}}. The template automatically populates it into a category if it's still like that after 7 days. //shb (t | c | m) 05:08, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I have tagged it to merge into Petrovac, as I don't think there is enough there for an article. AlasdairW (talk) 10:24, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

An earlier version of the Southern California article used the phrase "adult entertainment" (see Talk:Southern California for discussion). As "adult entertainment" is a euphemism for pornography (but not always understood as such by non-native readers), we should have a policy which complies with Wikivoyage:Sex tourism policy and Wikivoyage:The traveller comes first. I made a draft in Wikivoyage:Words to avoid. Please contribute with your opinions. /Yvwv (talk) 10:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I don't think policy/guideline pages are places for drafts. If you had meant your new text to be a draft, you should have put it in the talk page for the policy/guideline page. It seemed non-controversial to me, and as I mentioned elsewhere, I support it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:53, 6 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I agree with Ikan here. //shb (t | c | m) 11:01, 6 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I also agree with Ikan on this one. Martinvl (talk) 21:27, 6 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I am happy with the addition. To me "Adult movies" could be those which have been given an "18 certificate", and violence could be the main reason for the rating. AlasdairW (talk) 22:12, 6 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'm all for avoiding any promotion of sex tourism, but I'm not sure a knee-jerk reaction to automatically make a phrase verboten is at all useful. I often travel with my family and I would like to know where the shady hotels are so I can avoid them. Mrkstvns (talk) 01:21, 7 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Just for transparency, this is what Yvwv added:

adult entertainment: Can be understood as a euphemism for pornography, striptease, sex toy stores, and other sexually themed attractions. If such attractions comply with the Wikivoyage:Sex tourism policy they can be described without euphemism; a strip club can be called a strip club. Use expressions with "adults" in an unambigous way.

//shb (t | c | m) 01:34, 7 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Oppose the addition of "adult entertainment" to the words to avoid list. IMHO, we need to cut that list down to just those that are genuinely useful to avoid. Well over half have perfectly legitimate uses on a travel wiki. Mrkstvns (talk) 01:46, 7 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

To sort out misunderstanding, see Wikivoyage talk:Words to avoid for discussion. /Yvwv (talk) 08:14, 7 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think that the confusing situations should be mentioned. Here's one short way to do that:

• Use expressions with "adults" in an unambiguous way (e.g., "Adults only (age 18+)").

WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:13, 7 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

As mentioned about a month and a bit ago, I'm in the midst of trying to modernise the look of this site. The second stage of those revamps is now at User:SHB2000/revamped main, which revamps the sister projects section. The style replicates the redesign agreed upon with part 1 of the revamps when we got rid of the blue box.

Any thoughts and feedback welcome. //shb (t | c | m) 09:58, 10 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

It looks virtually identical to me, so I think it's certainly fine. The sister projects footer is the only real difference and is a little more clean and clear, so I Support. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:40, 10 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Support Looks fine to me. Pashley (talk) 14:13, 11 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Wikifunctions is listed twice with somewhat different descriptions. Mrkstvns (talk) 15:16, 11 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Done, good catch. //shb (t | c | m) 21:34, 11 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I notice that the links to other language versions are down at the end. I wonder if the people who need them most will find them there. Should they be more prominent? Perhaps in the top box? Pashley (talk) 03:38, 12 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Rather confusingly, we also don't display the language versions on mobile at all – is there any design-related reason behind this? (if not, then that will be part 3 of revamps) //shb (t | c | m) 03:45, 12 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

On mobile Minerva I am seeing various issues. The image in the discover section should push the text below and there is lots of blank whitespace. The map at the top is floating away from every thing else.

Since most of our readership is on mobile I think it is important to address these. Please be sure to test it on a real phone and ensure you are viewing the default Minerva skin. Jdlrobson (talk) 02:32, 13 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

That seems to be an issue with the existing Main Page too. My reforms only change the Sister Projects section, which seems to work perfectly fine for me. //shb (t | c | m) 05:47, 13 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

LGTM, thanks for doing this. Possibly a nitpick, but could the bottom row of the sister projects box be made symmetrical? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 05:46, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

TT, this is not strictly possible without doing a lot to change the layout, since what will be symmetrical depends on your browser, monitor size, etc. On my computer, there are two rows of seven icons, which is balanced down the middle and looks quite clean. If I resize my browser window, it flows to four rows of four and one row of two, which is not symmetrical. I think the more meaningful discussion is about which projects to include. I personally would like to see outreach: added, but I don't think it's critical. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:33, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

The main reason it wasn't included is because I'd literally forgotten :P. btw if you do see any missing projects, please do add them to User:SHB2000/WikivoyageSister since I won't be on my computer for the next few days. //shb (t | c | m) 07:59, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Done, template now updated. //shb (t | c | m) 04:12, 31 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

COORDI­NATE ME, a wikidata contest for adding geolocation data in 26 chosen countries. Since we use that data & may have data in listings that could be on WD, perhaps some people here could help. Pashley (talk) 04:12, 12 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

This contest is wrought with problems, like tracking inaccuracies and errors, unresponsive organizer and delayed prize awards. Take a look at the contest's talk page in previous years to see all the issues it had. I have spoken against funding this year's contest due to fiscal and logistical mismanagement. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 14:52, 12 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Out of ~300000 listings we have around 4000 are like that - that we have WD for them, but the WD doesn't have coords... Now the question is, if we want to blindly export that, or what..... :) -- andree 20:56, 12 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

We also have many cities that have listings but the listings (with or without Wikidata) don't have coords. Purplebackpack89 22:12, 15 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

There is a hamburger and hot dog stand called Franks Gatukök in central Gothenburg (Göteborg in Swedish), right in front of the Gothernburg Central Station. I can personally verify this - I visited it less than a month ago. It also shows up at Google Maps.

However, it doesn't appear to have any sort of website. Googling for "Franks Gatukök" gives a link to the site https://www.franksgatukok.se/ which lists several locations in Sweden, none of which is anywhere near Gothenburg Central Station. Their Facebook page doesn't list it either.

Does anyone know if there is some sort of website for this location? If there is none, can it be listed on the Gothenburg article anyway? JIP (talk) 18:24, 15 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Sure it can be listed! Just don't include a website if there isn't any. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:22, 15 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

You should be aware that there's currently a major upheaval over the alleged layoff of Community Tech staff by WMF. They're also discussing imitating a editorial strike in solidarity on Wikipedia because the staff that were laid off are members of the Wiki Workers United union, which was formed just last week and in the process of organization. You might want to get to know them. So far, both have over 50 and 160 signatures, and both will be growing over the coming days. It's getting very significant, and it could impact this wiki, too.

After that, if you agree to join in solidarity (and at the moment, pretty much a significant portion of Wikipedians are already in it), inform the WWU and the CWA. Tell them everything they need to know going back years - and include all known heavy-handed incidents involving the WMF and the Wikis. After that... beats me because of my lack of first-hand experience with labor unions and the like, but as a certain little shark might say: Murr. (Bite the hand that feeds. And I know where they hide the donuts.) 2601AC47 (talk) 19:27, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Asretired; @Doc James; @Ground Zero; @Ikan Kekek; @Mx. Granger; @OhanaUnited; @SHB2000; @ThunderingTyphoons!; anyone else? 2601AC47 (talk) 19:42, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for posting here. But I think we should keep solidarity with a union separate from any grievances any of us might have about supposedly heavy-handed actions by the WMF involving the operation of wikis. My only grievance regarding the treatment of Wikivoyage that I can think of is that it can get lost in the shuffle. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:45, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for posting here – for anyone reading, I'd absolutely urge you all to sign yourself in solidarity with WMF staff by adding your name at m:Wiki Workers United#Solidarity (I'd already done so before the ping). What happened yesterday absolutely reeked of corporatism and union-busting. //shb (t | c | m) 22:37, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I am not presently a member of the en.wp community and I would not seek to have anyone edit by proxy there for me or anything like that, but I want to register somewhere that I stand in solidarity with organized labor. There should probably be a phab: ticket to reform the entire Wikimedia Foundation into a worker-owned co-operative non-profit. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:46, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I find this sort of discussion frustrating, because so few people seem to know what they're talking about. For example, Justin, forgive me for picking on you, but the WMF can't be reformed into "a worker-owned co-operative non-profit", because public charities in the US can't technically be "owned" by anyone. I suggest that anyone who wants to support labor rights would do well to learn more about the subject, and then talk to their own elected politicians about making it structurally feasible to have a labor union that crosses national borders – not merely a federation of locals that coordinate with each other (which is what "international" labor unions are), but an actual single organization, operating under the same rules, so you don't get the lone employee in this country having a "union" of me, myself, and I or the near-impossibility of writing a contract that is the same for everyone. It's bad enough that US states have different rules (e.g., layoffs above a certain size in California require 60 calendar days' [fully paid] advance notice); it's almost impossible to reconcile different national laws.

Then you have the problem of people having different cultural conceptions of what a union is supposed to do for you. Is the labor union supposed to get you higher pay, or fairer conditions [which can mean lower pay and worse working conditions for previously privileged staff], or prevent staff from being fired, or organize social events, or help you get your next job, or something else? I know one municipal labor union whose negotiations are done by senior employees that "accidentally" preferred themselves for vacation scheduling, higher pay, and never having to work holidays and weekends for years. I know a couple of people at another organization who are pushing for a union; they seem to mostly be afraid that they will get fired someday but not understand why they were fired (I'm objectively doing well at the parts of my job that I think are important; why should my manager's opinion, or that fact that all my teammates keep quitting to get away from me, be relevant?).

Apologies for the long post, but: please, don't assume that whatever your local laws or views of unions are would be relevant to any situation that extends outside of your home area. It's really enormously complicated. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:55, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

It's not picking on me, but you are wrong factually: you can have a worker self-directed non-profit 501(c)3 in the United States. I am generally opposed to any hierarchy that models the way that capitalist businesses can unilaterally hire and fire. Maybe these workers still needed to be fired for some reason, but that should be decided by a democratic process. What that looks like will be different from organization to organization (e.g. a grievances board, administrative leave while under review, managers who are elected on a periodic basis and given the power to hire and fire by the working class, etc.), but when it comes to someone's basic livelihood and the fact that most of us live under wage slavery, then I don't want anyone getting fired without a democratic process behind it or at the very least some kind of extraordinary emergency reason. Additionally, for what it's worth, California (where the WMF are based) has laws specifically designed to help incorporate for-profit businesses as a co-op, so I would imagine that if someone wanted to create a worker self-directed non-profit, that would probably be the easiest place in the United States to do it. Lastly, I don't know why you seem to assume that I don't live in California. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:39, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

"Self-directed" and "owned" are different things.

I make no assumptions about where you are; I give the California example because it's one that I know exists in my state and that I know does not exist everywhere. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:08, 23 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

By "worker-owned co-op", I am distinguishing it from a member co-op like a grocery co-op or a credit union or a co-op apartment complex. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:04, 24 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

On the question of what Wikivoyage needs:

The OP is already blocked on two wikis for trolling and disruptive editing. Their contributions here this year are to import drama that is not directly related to us. This has happened a few times before with other editors (e.g., complaints about software changes).

The Simple English Wikipedia has a rule called "1STRIKE" that applies to people who have already been blocked elsewhere (almost always the English Wikipedia), and then bring their bad behavior to Simple. Maybe we should consider adopting a similar rule. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:56, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

They haven't done anything blockable or even against any guidelines here, and to be clear, you're suggesting we should indefinitely block them for informing us about layoffs and anti-union actions? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:03, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'm suggesting that when someone says "Tell [an external organization] everything they need to know going back years - and include all known heavy-handed incidents involving the WMF and the Wikis", that this is more like "drama-mongering" than "informing".

For example, the WMF deployed the current MediaWiki desktop skin several years ago, and some people are still mad about this "heavy-handed incidents involving the WMF and the Wikis". The Russian Wikipedia is still running a pop-up message saying that this was deployed without their consent. Do you think that's relevant to either layoffs or unionizing? I don't. Some of the "heavy-handed incidents involving the WMF and the Wikis" even involved the team that's being dissolved. There are probably still people at the German-language Wikipedia who think that Comm Tech was wrong to decline their urgent wish for the wrong piece of software to be re-installed, when the actual problem was created by their own local interface admins. There are definitely some who are still mad that the WMF stopped two of their admins from wheel-warring over the site config years ago. But none of these "heavy-handed incidents involving the WMF and the Wikis" have anything to do with unionizing. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:48, 24 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

If you noticed, I addressed that above without saying they should be summarily blocked, and no-one has taken them up on that here, at any rate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:36, 24 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

2601AC47 was globally locked. ~2026-31136-19 (talk) 22:53, 24 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Why? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:02, 24 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

This was the conversation/request. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:06, 24 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, I see. They really trolled in that thread. Too bad; I'm indebted to them for informing me about these happenings. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:15, 25 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

We already have WV:ONESTRIKE, by the way, but I really don't think bringing up the attention of the WMF's recent union busting actions is anywhere near disruptive to warrant an indefinitely. If it wasn't them, it almost certainly would've been brought up by someone else in the pub. //shb (t | c | m) 21:09, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I signed it in the signatures. ~2026-33106-46 (talk) 00:37, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hello! There will be two Wikimedia Café discussion opportunities during the last weekend of May. Both sessions will focus on the the 2026-2027 Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan. Participants may attend either or both sessions.

1. Saturday, 30 May 2026 at 15:00 UTC (timestamp converter), at a time friendly to the Americas, Africa, and Europe
2. Sunday, 31 May 2026 at 05:00 UTC (timestamp converter), at a time friendly to Asia and the Pacific

Café participants are highly encouraged to read in advance at least this summary of the plan. Optionally, Café participants are encouraged to read portions of the plan that interest them and ask questions or provide feedback on the Annual Plan talk page.

Please see the Café page for more information, including tables of timestamp conversions for both sessions, the agenda, and how to register!

↠Pine (✉) 19:48, 21 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Alright, I'm flying to Tórshavn next week. Anything on Faroe Islands that need a listing update, a picture or boots-on-the-ground verification? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 15:31, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Wow, what an opportunity. Our sister site has some requested photographs if you are available to take any. (Note that I'm not a member of the community there and I'm not soliciting editing by proxy.) ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:59, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Heh, I think it wouldn't be controversial to request to take a picture of a village or power plant. I've bookmarked several places and at least two locations are along the way to/from the airport so I have at least two chances to take pictures. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 18:06, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I notice that Faroe Islands#Towns and villages says "the roofs are often turf-covered", next to a picture showing no turf-covered roofs. Perhaps you could easily determine whether "often" is still the right word? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:02, 22 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Roofs are about 70-80% turf-covered when I see them in villages, but this number drops in bigger towns and only a few houses in the capital have turf roofs. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 23:12, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I am an editor at the Malayalam Wikivoyage project, which is currently hosted in Incubator. We recently encountered an issue where map markers were not appearing on maps. We raised a ticket in Phabricator, and came to know that the Kartographer extension is being removed. Does anyone here know of any alternative extension or approach that can be used to show markers on maps for denoting places? Adithyak1997 (talk) 17:19, 23 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

As far as I'm aware, Kartographer is not being removed as such, just not being added to any non-Wikivoyage WMF wikis. There is a project board for Kartographer on phab: and you can mw:Help:Extension:Kartographergenerally learn more about the extension on mw:. I imagine that if Kartographer were to be removed, there would be a replacement deployed before that. @Jdforrester (WMF): can you confirm that I'm correct (or if not, correct me)? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:12, 23 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Koavf: Thanks for sharing the links. I have already raised a ticket in Phabricator and it was based on that, I came to know that it will not be enabled on any new Wikivoyages and that it will be removed from other Wikivoyages too. @Jdforrester (WMF): For your confirmation/comments on above reply please. Adithyak1997 (talk) 15:59, 24 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Adithyak1997: Indeed, as I said there, " the mode should also have been removed from Wikivoyages". The problem is not with Kartographer but with the 'temporary' hack to allow Wikivoyages to cross-load content from WMCS, which was promised to be removed.

@Koavf: Do you know when the Wikivoyage community will finally do this work? Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 12:57, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I don't have any special insight into that, unfortunately. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:38, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think Andree.sk, OhanaUnited, and AlasdairW know more about maps than most of us. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:28, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure what is expected to be done by us, though? Is kartographer as a whole deprecated, or just some feature of it? Groups? I am completely out of loop here... -- andree 20:27, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I have no idea either. The only thing I did that is related to Kartographer is reporting a bug with missing pins on a map whenever some pins fall across both sides of the international date line. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 23:14, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Andree.sk: Yes, Groups, according to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:Kartographer#Groups_for_Wikivoyage — but it doesn't explain what's the limitation specifically (in general, having groups seems fine?). Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 17:09, 1 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

If you don't mind me asking, where was it promised to be removed? //shb (t | c | m) 01:07, 27 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Looking at Template:Other uses, I see that it is supposed to generate an italicized hatnote such as the following:

For other places with the same name, see Cleveland (disambiguation).

But where I see {{Other uses}} used on pages such as Burbank and Columbus, the hatnote is not italicized:

For other places with the same name, see Burbank (disambiguation).

For other places with the same name, see Columbus (disambiguation).

I checked the template {{Other uses}} itself and I couldn't figure out why the italics are not showing up. Anybody have a suggestion? -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 21:46, 24 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I removed the CSS classes and it now renders italicized on pages. The weird thing is that these classes are not part of MediaWiki:Common.css, so maybe adding non-defined classes results in unstyled text. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:56, 24 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hey everyone,

I suggest adding a “pee” or “poop” section to articles (district, city, region, country), or having articles like “peeing in the (country)” or “peeing in (city)” would be great.

Thanks…Almajidy【Talk】 12:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think you're looking for a subsection under the "Respect" section where we are supposed to discuss the regulations regarding defecation and urination. Or public bathrooms under the "Cope" section. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 12:34, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think that a title like Toilets in the United Arab Emirate would be more appropriate and expected. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:53, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Like if we have “sleep”, “eat” and “see” instead of “accommodation”, “F&B choices” and “attractions”, I think we need a “pee”, “poop”, “urinate”, “defecate”, “excrete”, “eliminate waste”, “dump”, “crap”, “drop a deuce”, “piss”, “whiz”, “micturate”, “/ʃɪt/” section. Almajidy【Talk】 18:23, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

no we don't, not with this type of vocabulary which is very unbecoming for a travel guide. You are welcome to create a WikiPee website, invite whomever you want to join, and write whatever suits your fancy. Ibaman (talk) 18:48, 26 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Even if we thought that a "Pee" section was a good label, it's unlikely to be the one that readers are looking for. That's what I meant when I said that "Toilets" might be more "expected". WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:20, 27 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I don't think we need such a separate section on it, as WV:STICK already suggests putting toilets under "Cope". Even if we ever find a need for such a section, I would suggest "Toilet" as a verb. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 02:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Okay, but maybe the region doesn’t have any toilets, or the locals pee in a hole, on the floor, or in a valley. Also, I think there are peeing customs or peeing places in the city or country. Is the water quality good? What does it feel like to pee (peeing experience)? That’s why we need a pee section. Almajidy【Talk】 18:03, 27 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Yes, as was pointed out Cope is the place for information about toilets and it's indeed useful information for voyagers - especially in destinations where toilets are hard to find for one reason or another. Plainly writing out "Pee", "Shit" or the like as a heading would be rude, though. --Ypsilon (talk) 18:27, 27 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

If we include “pee” in “cope,” the “cope” section will have a lot of information that doesn’t have enough variety.

That’s all— Almajidy【Talk】 08:11, 28 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Eligible voters are asked to participate in the 2026 Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee election. More information–including an eligibility check, voting process information, candidate information, and a link to the vote–are available on Meta at the 2026 Election information page. The vote closes on 2 June 2026 at 00:00 UTC.

Please vote if your account is eligible. Results will be available by 14 June 2026. -- In cooperation with the U4C,

Keegan (WMF) (talk) 17:15, 27 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

btw I'm gonna shamelessly self-promote m:User:SHB2000/U4C guide 2026 if any of you are interested – tried to be comprehensive, use it at your will. //shb (t | c | m) 09:24, 28 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I looked over your list. I'm concerned about the candidate who has an active U4C case, of course, but also about the number of candidates who didn't answer the questions. That suggests that they would struggle to do the work.

You might look at m:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/Campaigning rules. What the English Wikipedia calls "canvassing" is allowed. Meta-Wiki has never prohibited it, and in some processes, such as the Community Wishlist, actively encourages it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:20, 28 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

It depends, I suppose. Meta doesn't prohibit canvassing, but the overwhelming opinion was that Uncle's canvassing in his NVM application was disruptive enough that it demonstrated a severe lack of understanding for what the role actually was (since NVMs are appointed, not voted in, so consensus isn't really something for the U4C to take into consideration). A massive shame, honestly, because he was one of the more qualified candidates that I had in m:User:SHB2000/U4C guide 2025, one that could've actually had a chance for the SSA seat this year if it weren't for that. //shb (t | c | m) 00:03, 29 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Having met Borschts in-person during last year's Wikimania, I am comfortable supporting his candidacy. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 00:07, 31 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

The Ganges is one of the most important rivers of Asia, yet there's no itinerary on it, unlike the Yellow River, Yangtze or the Nile. So, I have developed one on the Ganges under along the Ganges River, albeit with inspirations from those Chinese rivers. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 14:34, 1 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hey everyone, I know this is a bit late, but there is currently 1 admin nomination right now at Wikivoyage:User rights nominations#Koavf (sysop). Your input and opinions are more than appreciated. //shb (t | c | m) 09:55, 2 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Can we create a simple version of Wikivoyage, similar to Simple English Wikipedia? Would this be a good concept, if excecuted properly? ~2026-33106-46 (talk) 06:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

While Simple English Wikivoyage sounds good on paper, the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) currently does not allow creation of Simple English projects other than Wikipedia and Wiktionary. Maybe we could host Simple English Wikivoyage under a separate namespace under English WV (similar to Wikijunior under Wikibooks), but the problem is that the English WV community is already small. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 06:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

I've always thought it's possible to potentially execute a multilingual Wikivoyage, but I suppose the need for that with modern translation software now present, is almost zero. //shb (t | c | m) 07:18, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

The problem with translation software on Wikivoyage is that there's not always one-to-one translations of idiomatic expressions we tend to use in articles (as opposed to Wikipedia). For instance, there's no direct Bengali translation of "smorgasbord" used in India, leading me to reword its Bengali version for a similar expression (like a "forest of languages" instead of a "smorgasbord of languages"). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:24, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

You should still be able to usually read between the lines, though. At least this is what I often end up doing when translating content from de or itwikivoyage. //shb (t | c | m) 07:48, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000 @Sbb1413 @Koavf What about the simple version of Wikibooks, Wikiquotes, and Wikiversity? ~2026-33106-46 (talk) 08:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

None of those would be approved today and q:simple: and q:b: were closed a long time ago (there was never a simple.wv). Wikibooks has a kind of proxy for simple books at b:Wikibooks:Wikijunior. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:08, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Simple English Wikibooks and Wikiquote were closed long time ago, and there has never been Simple English Wikiversity or Wikivoyage. However, you still have Wikijunior for child-oriented books, regular English Wikiquotes for simple English quotes (if there's any), and I guess there's a Wikijunior-like mechanism on regular English Wikiversity. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 08:11, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Wikijunior is perhaps the only bit of Wikibooks (other than the Cookbook) that's functionally usable icl... //shb (t | c | m) 08:54, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000: Do you want to take a look at that above comment? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Sorry yeah my comment was intended as a reply to yours, not Sbb's. //shb (t | c | m) 09:32, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

In addition to the fact that the WMF would not allow projects like simple.wp today, the language in Wikivoyage should be very accessible and the concepts are generally pretty easy to understand, so I don't see the need for this as much as for an encyclopedia that covers literally every topic and could plausibly use simplified articles. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:34, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Also, I no longer subscribe to the "Simple English" language ideology I once tried to. I rather focus on accessibility by making complex concepts easier. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:37, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

"Simple English" language ideology? ~2026-33106-46 (talk) 08:13, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Yes, and that includes limiting your vocabulary to 1500-something words (BE 1500 or VOA Special English), or even less (BE 850). However, I sometimes find it limiting (maybe Orwellian), although I don't use any overly complicated expressions, and my focus is towards simplifying concepts rather than using simple words. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 08:16, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

This is part of why I think wikis like tokwiki (an experimental language crafted on the basis of minimising the amount of words used) are absolutely useless (see m:User:SHB2000/tokwiki if you want a full explanation) – you limit expression in a needless way when there's a clear alternative available that's more practical. //shb (t | c | m) 08:57, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply